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Euros

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socal lurker

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Yes, I see what you are saying BUT I think 999999/1000000 will say its not a pen, and the 1/1000000 are French, that's exactly the sort of decision we want overturning.
I don't think those numbers are close to what people are seeing. IMO, it was definitely a foul: the defender deliberately blocked Mbappe's path to prevent his cut--a calculated move, not inadvertent contact. That's just about the definition of impeding with contact. I think you can argue that it is soft and often not called that way, but I don't think there is anyway to say it is a C&O error to give the PK.
 

socal lurker

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And there certainly could have been a 4th PK in added time. While the VAR check was ongoing, Clatternberg opined on the US broadcast that it was a PK. (I was muted--it is our work day and all--on the French PK, so I didn't hear his opinion on that one.)
 

Big Cat

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Level 5 Referee
Yes, I see what you are saying BUT I think 999999/1000000 will say its not a pen, and the 1/1000000 are French, that's exactly the sort of decision we want overturning.
Agreed James. Good defending. Never a PK in a million years

We owe a huge debt to this Antonio fella however. Clearly lacks consistency overall, but his maverick display in the Champions League Final has had a huge influence on this tournament. Whilst I'd pay good money to see his fate refereeing demonstratively on Hackney Marshes, he's potentially changed the game for good in that one game. Arguably, unlike all his colleagues, Antonio has shown what can be achieved through evolution when one has the character to show his bosses a thing or two rather than lay down and follow instructions. I've little doubt there's a connection between that ECL Final and the improved Refereeing we've seen in this competition
There are too many parallels and aspects of copying IMO

Ironic that Antonio hasn't had the best of tournaments, but he may have exerted influence beyond his years
 

GraemeS

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Level 5 Referee
That's a little cart leading the horse there don't you think? He's a quirky referee who from what little I've seen of him, has been very inconsistent in his decision making, and extremely consistent in his derisory attitude to players and unclear communication of decisions.

Lauding him because his style may or may not have had an influence on other referees is a significant logical leap for a start, and also comes across as very generous given that even you have to admit he's having a poor tournament. I'm far from convinced that he should be highlighted as an example to follow - much closer to the opposite in fact!
 

es1

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Level 4 Referee
That's a little cart leading the horse there don't you think? He's a quirky referee who from what little I've seen of him, has been very inconsistent in his decision making, and extremely consistent in his derisory attitude to players and unclear communication of decisions.

Lauding him because his style may or may not have had an influence on other referees is a significant logical leap for a start, and also comes across as very generous given that even you have to admit he's having a poor tournament. I'm far from convinced that he should be highlighted as an example to follow - much closer to the opposite in fact!

i think there are far better refs out there however my man kuipers may have harmed his chances with a 2nd big VAR intervention in as many games (IIRC)
 

Big Cat

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Level 5 Referee
That's a little cart leading the horse there don't you think? He's a quirky referee who from what little I've seen of him, has been very inconsistent in his decision making, and extremely consistent in his derisory attitude to players and unclear communication of decisions.

Lauding him because his style may or may not have had an influence on other referees is a significant logical leap for a start, and also comes across as very generous given that even you have to admit he's having a poor tournament. I'm far from convinced that he should be highlighted as an example to follow - much closer to the opposite in fact!
What I'm saying is that his display in The Champions League Final was one of the best Refereeing performances I've seen in many years
Anyone who has the potential to do that on near enough the biggest stage has to be given immense credit
I accept that he has a chequered record over the years and he's had a poor tournament. However, I'm personally confident that 'the suits' were influenced by that game to the extent that there's causality regarding instructions given to Referees in these Euros

We know that Referees (in the EPL and any other Tournament) don't officiate as they'd like to, rather they collectively follow mandates from their employers to achieve consistency. What we've seen is the Referees taking more control of games by not allowing themselves to be influenced by players buying soft free kicks all over the park. We've also seen the efforts of players to control the game dismissed by Referees from the very start. It was only three or four games in when I called it... see post 22 ... That's how marked the change was and the style has persisted throughout

Now I/we don't know the exact mandates given to Refs for the Euros, I/we can only surmise what was said and where it came from. However, I/we can say that it came from somewhere... and I'm confident the ECL Final was a big factor (such was the success of that game and the short time sice it happened)
Evolution... he ain't the best Ref in the world, he'd get his head taken off on Hackney Marshes, but he did step out of the shadows with his own style and I think some of his 'extreme methods' have positively influenced the game. We rarely, if ever, see a Referee do things so differently. That's why we rarely see aspects of 'their' game prevail
 

RustyRef

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Staff member
He's the Spanish Mike Dean and has always been a maverick. Just as I'm sure PGMOL will have tried without luck to get Mike to tow the line, whatever the Spanish equivalent of PGMOL will have tried the same with Lahoz.

Worth also adding that the players do like Lahoz, probably because of his communication with them compared to other referees. Not sure if others saw it but Ronaldo was having a smile and joke with him at half time, minutes after he had given France a penalty.
 

Degnann

SFA Ref
Level 6 Referee
Do we reckon Lahoz gets the final regardless of his performances? Got the champions league final, is retiring at the end of the tournament? Obviously if spain dont make the final
 

socal lurker

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Do we reckon Lahoz gets the final regardless of his performances? Got the champions league final, is retiring at the end of the tournament? Obviously if spain dont make the final

While I don't play a lot of fantasy assigner, I think he has only a very remote chance of the final and needs others to be blocked by nationality of finalists or from a grave error in a knockout match. And a ref is never going to get a final regardless of performance--some are going to get more forgiven than others, but performance is always going to play a meaningful part.
 

Big Cat

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Level 5 Referee
Do we reckon Lahoz gets the final regardless of his performances? Got the champions league final, is retiring at the end of the tournament? Obviously if spain dont make the final
I doubt it, despite everything I've said There are others putting his own methods to better practice that he himself. The French PK was a show stopper IMO
 

RefIADad

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Level 7 Referee
Brych or Kuipers IMO.
Unless it's a Netherlands vs Germany semifinal (I'm assuming that UEFA wouldn't pick a referee from the country that just lost to the other team in the final), this is my pick as well. Otherwise, I think Taylor has a good shot as long as he has a solid R16 performance. While I'm not always the biggest Taylor fan in the EPL, I think he's excellent in UEFA matches.
 

RustyRef

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Staff member
I really thought it would be Lahoz unless Spain progressed, but it would appear he is one of the referees that has been sent home after the group stages.
 

RefIADad

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Level 7 Referee
Unconfirmed reports that the following were sent home:

Turpin
Lahoz
Kovacs
Eckberg
Grinfeeld
Soares dias

If the reports are confirmed, pretty big refereeing news to have your UCL and UEL finals referees both sent home after the group stages. Not necessarily saying it's not justified in either case, but definitely surprising.
 

es1

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Level 4 Referee
turpin surprises me, thought he handled his 2 games pretty well. the russia pen he gave was soft but that's was about it
 

es1

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Level 4 Referee
Taylor has the italy v austria game, siebert wales v denmark.

be interesting to see who gets belgium v portugal, that'll need some reffing
 

arbitre

Active Member
Do you think Lahoz was sent packing because they thought he had a bad game Portugal v France?
He was the only one to do 3 group matches, so they must have thought highly of him, so to be sent home is unexpected.
 

Alex Rush-Fear

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Level 4 Referee
From what I've seen on Twitter about Rosetti's press conference, it's been confirmed that it was offside that was incorrectly given from the corner in the Turkey v Italy game, and also that they were incorrect not to give a penalty for the handball shout just before half time (not sure I'd agree with that!)

No official sources though.
 
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