A&H

Euro 2020 final

As a Dutchie, absolutely loved Kuipers tonight finally getting his big final after missing out on the 2014 WC. Thought yellow for Jorginho was barely acceptable even if my (and probably anyone's) first feeling was red. Think VAR will have talked themselves into not having Kuipers review it, but had he seen the other angles, I think he'd have given red.

Excellent game otherwise and probably no one will have any issues with how he reffed. FIFA will miss him and Lahoz in years to come.

As a fan, absolutely loved the Chiellini foul. Expert defending there, far smarter yellow card to get compared to the stupid Bonnuci foul.

OH yeah, Maguire has won me over. Has been an excellent player all tournament
 
The Referee Store
Better side won.

Thought Kuipers had an ok, not great game, for a defining game of his international career I think he might look back and have a few regrets.

Chiellini's foul on Saka to earn his yellow was the highlight of the game for me. A proper "you're going nowhere, get the yellow card out ref" 'challenge' (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense).
 
Postmortem is just that. The fact is England was the better team for more if the game than Italy but not enough to win it in normal time. Once it goes to penalties you can't really blame anyone. Bring the subs in earlier and lose in normal time then you still get blamed. Don't bring subs in and lose, you get blamed for not bringing in pen specialists despite having subs. Hind sight is 20-20.
 
In a final you can just ignore many yellow card offences as long as it doesn't kick-off like Webb's final did then you're golden. Fortunate the missed red for Jorginho came so late in the game.

Did well to avoid giving a number of potential very soft free kicks, although the lack of replays do help sell decisions compared to what the 3 or 4 angles you'd get in the premier league to show he'd perhaps missed something.
 
Kids who stepped up to take penalties had balls of steel.

As for Rashford, not the first time he’s down that stupid dance, but hopefully the last. If the penalty is saved fine, I can live with it but to fail to hit the target is criminal.
 
I actually thought the ref got it spot on not to send Jorghino off, it was reckless but not dangerous, it was a bit unfortunate his studs slipped on the ball which of course meant it landed on Grealish leg.

I do get why some might think its a red card but the ref was in the perfect position too see it. If Jorginhos foot was above the ball and even if he just clips the ball and the follow through hit Grealish then that is more of a certain red card in my view.
 
In a final, red cards typically have to be bright red. No surprise at all that both were yellow.

He set a pretty high foul bar--could have backfired but he kept the game at high energy and enough control. (Any PK for Sterling was probably going to have to have bone showing through the skin--no way was he going to get a soft one this game.) While I might prefer a somewhat lower bar, he was consistent and managed the game.

I totally agree about Saka--if you're going to have him take a kick, why are you waiting until the most pressure filled one. I've always though that you put your two players with the most ice in their veins on the 1st and 5th kicks.
 
socal lurker said:
In a final, red cards typically have to be bright red. No surprise at all that both were yellow.

He set a pretty high foul bar--could have backfired but he kept the game at high energy and enough control. (Any PK for Sterling was probably going to have to have bone showing through the skin--no way was he going to get a soft one this game.) While I might prefer a somewhat lower bar, he was consistent and managed the game.

I totally agree about Saka--if you're going to have him take a kick, why are you waiting until the most pressure filled one. I've always though that you put your two players with the most ice in their veins on the 1st and 5th kicks.
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Didn't Ronaldo once go 5th, and never got the 5th kick because his teammates had already missed three?
 
one said:
Postmortem is just that. The fact is England was the better team for more if the game than Italy but not enough to win it in normal time. Once it goes to penalties you can't really blame anyone. Bring the subs in earlier and lose in normal time then you still get blamed. Don't bring subs in and lose, you get blamed for not bringing in pen specialists despite having subs. Hind sight is 20-20.
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Dubious "fact" that.

Apart from the stuff mentioned I thought the handball was harsh when an Italian forward headed the ball onto his own arm (nowhere near goal), but Stones got away with a handball in the penalty area - it was from close range but his arms were extended beyond his body (and that's contrasted with the defender with a chance to block Shaw's shot who might have had a better chance if he hadn't been trying to run / challenge with his hands behind his back).
 
bloovee said:
Dubious "fact" that.

Apart from the stuff mentioned I thought the handball was harsh when an Italian forward headed the ball onto his own arm (nowhere near goal), but Stones got away with a handball in the penalty area - it was from close range but his arms were extended beyond his body (and that's contrasted with the defender with a chance to block Shaw's shot who might have had a better chance if he hadn't been trying to run / challenge with his hands behind his back).
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The hand Stones got hit on was in front of his body though. If it would have hit his right hand, it probably would have been a PK
 
Another angle.
Not only has he got completely past him, the Italian was left off the pitch. He knew what he was doing, yes it was the half way line and out the width of the pitch, but taking into consideration he has literally left his player for dead and has a free run at goal in the dying seconds of a major final. He had support too in the middle.
This was, in my opinion, serious foul play.
By grabbing his shirt collar, he is bringing him down around the neck in theory, whilst the player is running at speed away from him.

FB_IMG_1626080643747.jpg
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Another angle.
Not only has he got completely past him, the Italian was left off the pitch. He knew what he was doing, yes it was the half way line and out the width of the pitch, but taking into consideration he has literally left his player for dead and has a free run at goal in the dying seconds of a major final. He had support too in the middle.
This was, in my opinion, serious foul play.
By grabbing his shirt collar, he is bringing him down around the neck in theory, whilst the player is running at speed away from him.

View attachment 5050
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You're mixing a couple of things up here.

Position on the pitch and dying seconds have little to do with it. Only consideration would be DOGSO and I don't think all of the 4 criteria (Distance, Direction, Defenders, Control) can be an unequivocal 'Yes' therefore let's discount that.

As for SFP, it's interesting. There is clearly some force behind his grip on Sakas shirt, whether that is sufficient to cross the threshold for SFP is not certain in my mind.
 
It's one those, incandescebt rage when committed against you, hero status of for your team.
I think there may be something in the future to try and remove these cynical fouls.. (sin bins anyone?) but for now I don't see player safety endangerment or brutality
 
Justylove said:
You're mixing a couple of things up here.

Position on the pitch and dying seconds have little to do with it. Only consideration would be DOGSO and I don't think all of the 4 criteria (Distance, Direction, Defenders, Control) can be an unequivocal 'Yes' therefore let's discount that.

As for SFP, it's interesting. There is clearly some force behind his grip on Sakas shirt, whether that is sufficient to cross the threshold for SFP is not certain in my mind.
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Holding offences aren't judged on CRUEF criteria it's not on the list of offences where the referee considers them.
So it leaves safety endangerment and brutality. Don't see it myself. Cynical yes. Deliberately violent... I suppose. Opinion of ref but I dont see a shirt pull as a violent act.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Another angle.
Not only has he got completely past him, the Italian was left off the pitch. He knew what he was doing, yes it was the half way line and out the width of the pitch, but taking into consideration he has literally left his player for dead and has a free run at goal in the dying seconds of a major final. He had support too in the middle.
This was, in my opinion, serious foul play.
By grabbing his shirt collar, he is bringing him down around the neck in theory, whilst the player is running at speed away from him.

View attachment 5050
Click to expand...


i see cynical

i do not see excessive force or brutality

bear in mind time played and position of offence has no bearing when considering sfp
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Another angle.
Not only has he got completely past him, the Italian was left off the pitch. He knew what he was doing, yes it was the half way line and out the width of the pitch, but taking into consideration he has literally left his player for dead and has a free run at goal in the dying seconds of a major final. He had support too in the middle.
This was, in my opinion, serious foul play.
By grabbing his shirt collar, he is bringing him down around the neck in theory, whilst the player is running at speed away from him.

View attachment 5050
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking potential SFP when i first saw the pull, it's borderline dangerous imo, if it happened in my game I'd definitely be giving myself some time to think about it.
 
Very rare a game of football gets under my skin these days, but this one achieved it

1) Nobody in the media seems to realize who was responsible for this starting line-up. Any Luton Town or Newcastle Utd supporter would recognize the negative formation a mile off however. It works OK for us because we're crap in comparison to our opposition, but England had fortunes of exciting attacking talent on the bench, the likes of which I don't normally get the opportunity to support. I feel for players like Harry Kane (who looked really sharp when he infrequently managed to get into the oppo half). They were given an impossible task
2) It's asking an awful lot of any player to take a KMTPK in a Major Final without having 10 or 15 minutes to get their eye in and burn off some nervous energy. Let alone a kid or players who've hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Again, I feel sorry for the players. Absolutely stupid tactic
3) How can anyone say Kuipers had a good game when he's missed a KMI?
OK, I could forgive the R on the FOP to some extent, but replays at normal speed were binary. Grealish had his safety endangered by an unacceptable challenge. VAR paralysed again when it comes to questioning the view of a superior on-field R in big games at big moments
4) So we're back to where we started with on-line racism and abuse. What's the answer? If we have 60 million fans, how do we stop a tiny fraction venting their toxic, prejudiced, vile views on a plethora of global platforms? Shut the platforms down? Obviously not. So what? Only option is to legislate and overwhelm the Magistrates with criminal charges. But even then, this nonsense will still filter to the Public Domain

Very depressing. Gareth is the 'blue-eyed-boy' with the Media, for many good reasons. But the team only beat a below-par Garman side and a semi-resilient Danish team. The Group Stage was lame and Ukraine were awful. Not that much to get excited about when we compare Italy's path to the trophy. I thought they humiliated us for long periods last night, in our back yard. That's my synopsis. Enjoy
 
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I didn’t really see anything wrong with the Chiellini yellow. Could never really be more than that.

But Jorginho getting off with a yellow.. 🤔🤔😬😬

And I’m saying that as someone who was supporting Italy over in Australia..
The only really diminishing factors that I can see considered (and this is off memory here, since I haven’t watched the incident back since the game yet), is that both Grealish and Jorginho lunged into the loose ball (but Grealish has done absolutely nothing wrong) and that Jorginhos foot has sort of bounced off the ball into Grealish.

I still think though, if I’m standing exactly where Kuipers is, I’m most likely giving red..
 
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