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England v Cameroon WWC

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Surely this a perfect example of a tiring flustered referee who had basically lost the plot being entrusted with the final say in correctly referred VARse decisions. Who’s to say that all refs don’t really need this level of unfair pressure and these calls can be easily made upstairs without his/ her involvement. Works effortlessly in all other sports??

It doesn’t undermine a referee, it strengthens them surely as the players can’t influence VAR with histrionics! 🤔

It works in other sports either in discussion with the onfield ref (rugby) or in matters of fact (cricket). With subjective decisions, such as the penalty incident, or interfering with play you will have two standards to uphold.

Next season in the EPL the referee on the pitch will no longer be in control of the game because they may see an incident and decide it is trivial, so plays on, but the VAR official has a different tolerance level and decides that it should be called. Because there aren't going to be monitors the VAR official's decision is final. With a pitchside monitor the referee makes the final decision, so all subjective decisions are made by the same person.
 
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It works in other sports either in discussion with the onfield ref (rugby) or in matters of fact (cricket). With subjective decisions, such as the penalty incident, or interfering with play you will have two standards to uphold.

Next season in the EPL the referee on the pitch will no longer be in control of the game because they may see an incident and decide it is trivial, so plays on, but the VAR official has a different tolerance level and decides that it should be called. Because there aren't going to be monitors the VAR official's decision is final. With a pitchside monitor the referee makes the final decision, so all subjective decisions are made by the same person.
That's not correct. For VAR to be used, there MUST be monitors, those are the IFAB laws. All that can happen is they can be encouraged not to use them excessively/to "sell" a decision, but they'll always be there and the ref will always have the right to check any VAR referral.
 
Next season in the EPL the referee on the pitch will no longer be in control of the game because they may see an incident and decide it is trivial, so plays on, but the VAR official has a different tolerance level and decides that it should be called. Because there aren't going to be monitors the VAR official's decision is final. With a pitchside monitor the referee makes the final decision, so all subjective decisions are made by the same person.
That's obviously false. It goes directly against the VAR protocol that must be applied in full, in order to have IFAB permission to use it. Whatever or whoever you got that from, they need to actually read the LOTG from IFAB itself.

In particular, "Only the referee can initiate a 'review'; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a 'review' to the referee" and "The final decision is always taken by the referee, either based on information from the VAR or after the referee has undertaken an ‘on-field review’ (OFR).".

There cannot be a review initiated by the VAR, only a recommendation that it occur, and no decision made by the VAR, only advice offered to the referee (should there be a loss of OFR capability).
 
The PGMO were trying to go with the no pitch side monitor route; not all the FA Cup pilot games (if any) used monitors iirc.
It was announced towards the end of the season that they’d ‘decided’ to use pitch side monitors for 19-20 season.
 
All this could be improved massively in removing the referee from these calls. It’s hard sometimes as we all know to see all things correctly, cameras don’t lie
 
Next season in the EPL the referee on the pitch will no longer be in control of the game because they may see an incident and decide it is trivial, so plays on, but the VAR official has a different tolerance level and decides that it should be called. Because there aren't going to be monitors the VAR official's decision is final. With a pitchside monitor the referee makes the final decision, so all subjective decisions are made by the same person.
I'm sorry, what are you referring to? There will most definitely be pitchside monitors and on-field reviews in the EPL next season. They're part of the VAR protocol and can't be dispensed with. According to some newspaper reports the EPL had said they would like to avoid OFR's if at all possible. I emailed the IFAB to check on the validity of these reports and their reply was, "As we know for all areas of reporting, what the papers say is not always entirely accurate."

I've also recently seen discussions online saying that the EPL have quietly backed off the idea of severely restricting OFR's anyway. Whether the IFAB had anything to do with that I wouldn't know but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
The PGMO were trying to go with the no pitch side monitor route; not all the FA Cup pilot games (if any) used monitors iirc.
It was announced towards the end of the season that they’d ‘decided’ to use pitch side monitors for 19-20 season.
All the FA Cup games that used VAR had pitchside monitors (they had to, or VAR couldn't have been used) - it's just that on a couple of occasions they weren't used when, going by the protocol, they almost certainly should have been. I had also heard (as I just mentioned) that the English football authorities have 'decided' (or been persuaded?) that they should abide by the protocol like everyone else next season.
 
I'm sorry, what are you referring to? There will most definitely be pitchside monitors and on-field reviews in the EPL next season. They're part of the VAR protocol and can't be dispensed with. According to some newspaper reports the EPL had said they would like to avoid OFR's if at all possible. I emailed the IFAB to check on the validity of these reports and their reply was, "As we know for all areas of reporting, what the papers say is not always entirely accurate."

I've also recently seen discussions online saying that the EPL have quietly backed off the idea of severely restricting OFR's anyway. Whether the IFAB had anything to do with that I wouldn't know but it wouldn't surprise me.
In the clip with the Aussie ref that went round a few months ago, there's a moment where he gets given a decision by the VAR, seems to accept it as correct, but then says something like "Should I go and check the screen to sell it?". Timewasting bullshit like that I can imagine will be strongly discouraged, but aside from that I agree it will probably end up being used in a very similar manner to how we've seen it used up until this point.
 
I agree it will probably end up being used in a very similar manner to how we've seen it used up until this point.
As it surely should be. As a couple of people have already pointed out, you can't have one version of VAR being used in one country and a different version in others.
 
I think the biggest problem is that none of the referees or teams had used VAR before. While some of the VAR officials will have, the lack of experience of the on field teams (all 3!) cause the issues.

And FIFA have taken women referees from around the world to do the matches. Most of them will be not in professional leagues and not with the same quality of matches as they are officiating in France. Think back a few men's world cups, and how bad were the referees from some of the confederations who got matches. We are at the same stage in women's football. The best, most experience women's referees will be from the stronger countries, who have qualified for the last 8 (USA, Germany, etc); so their officials will be sent home. The depth of what is left is not good enough for the teams - Italy 90 World Cup final anybody for a really c**p performance.
 
And there in lies the problem.

If they send men to referee the women's world cup people will rightly ask how is that fair on the female match officials who've worked their entire careers to try and get to that point, only to be pipped at the post by a man who doesn't referee any women's football.

But at the same time, people will rightly complain if the standard of refereeing is not up to scratch, which, judging by last night, it clearly isn't in some cases.

I think the development of female match officials at the highest level is something that is going to need more attention as the women's game improves.

How many female officials do we have in the Premier League, Championship, League 1, or League 2?

Sian Massey Ellis is an AR in the EPL, but how many others, maybe one or to in the Football League.
 
What this game needed was good player and game management, strong personality and authority, ability to sell decisions and not allowing intimidation tactics impact your decision making.

I watched bits and pieces of this game and it didn't necessarily need a referee from a top league. It needed a referee from a country where the culture towards referees demands authority, mental strength etc.

This referee may have left a lot to be desired, but with the antics of Cameroon, many male referees would not have done much better.
 
I'm sorry, what are you referring to? There will most definitely be pitchside monitors and on-field reviews in the EPL next season. They're part of the VAR protocol and can't be dispensed with. According to some newspaper reports the EPL had said they would like to avoid OFR's if at all possible. I emailed the IFAB to check on the validity of these reports and their reply was, "As we know for all areas of reporting, what the papers say is not always entirely accurate."

I've also recently seen discussions online saying that the EPL have quietly backed off the idea of severely restricting OFR's anyway. Whether the IFAB had anything to do with that I wouldn't know but it wouldn't surprise me.

It may have changed since that evening, but Anthony Taylor told a room of referees that the EPL were going to try to avoid using the monitors - or words to that effect. As I say they may have changed their minds between then and now.
 
As it surely should be. As a couple of people have already pointed out, you can't have one version of VAR being used in one country and a different version in others.

I still suspect there will be far fewer OFRs in the Premier League than we are seeing in the WWC and plenty of decisions will be made based on the VAR telling the referee what he has seen and what he recommends. Only time will tell though.
 
As it surely should be. As a couple of people have already pointed out, you can't have one version of VAR being used in one country and a different version in others.

Can't see that as a big issue, given that some games in both League and FA Cups used VAR last season and some didn't!

That's a variance in the same competition let alone between matches in other countries!
 
It may have changed since that evening, but Anthony Taylor told a room of referees that the EPL were going to try to avoid using the monitors - or words to that effect. As I say they may have changed their minds between then and now.
I don't think anything will have changed since that evening. As AT inferred, the PGMOL will referee games according to feedback from the Clubs and various Associations representing managers and players. The Law is nothing more than a framework under which to play the game. Detail is routinely ignored and the tail often wags the dog. So why should it be a surprise if the OFR debacle rarely features in the new EPL season?
 
The laws don't have to be followed strictly as UEFA demonstrated by using their own interpretation of the handball law well before the new law was introduced.
 
The laws don't have to be followed strictly as UEFA demonstrated by using their own interpretation of the handball law well before the new law was introduced.
Although specifically, that wasn't the tail wagging the dog. That was 'new interpretation' of words (which need little understanding) to meet the goals tally demand of the 'new audiences'
 
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I'm sorry, what are you referring to? There will most definitely be pitchside monitors and on-field reviews in the EPL next season. They're part of the VAR protocol and can't be dispensed with. According to some newspaper reports the EPL had said they would like to avoid OFR's if at all possible. I emailed the IFAB to check on the validity of these reports and their reply was, "As we know for all areas of reporting, what the papers say is not always entirely accurate."

I've also recently seen discussions online saying that the EPL have quietly backed off the idea of severely restricting OFR's anyway. Whether the IFAB had anything to do with that I wouldn't know but it wouldn't surprise me.

I am just going by what I have heard and read. I hope that I am wrong, but I wouldn't bet against PGMOL doing their own thing.
 
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