The Ref Stop

Drawbacks of the VAR system

The Ref Stop
Nothing in the article is "wrong" per-se, but all the problems the article highlights surround poorly written legislation from the German FA and are often the result of artificial limitations placed on the VAR.

We've had this discussion on here may times before and I'm going to say the same thing I say every time - let the qualified and experienced referees in the VAR control room use their knowledge and experience to make decisions. Cut out the ridiculous delays where the referee has to jog to the sideline and watch multiple replays, and stop trying to randomly limit when they are and aren't allowed to get involved and it'll all run much smoother.
 
GraemeS said:
Nothing in the article is "wrong" per-se, but all the problems the article highlights surround poorly written legislation from the German FA and are often the result of artificial limitations placed on the VAR.

We've had this discussion on here may times before and I'm going to say the same thing I say every time - let the qualified and experienced referees in the VAR control room use their knowledge and experience to make decisions. Cut out the ridiculous delays where the referee has to jog to the sideline and watch multiple replays, and stop trying to randomly limit when they are and aren't allowed to get involved and it'll all run much smoother.
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But you're taking away (wrongly) I believe in the principle of 1 man in charge.

Secondly if you allow ALL decisions to possibly be looked at by VAR, apart from the technical/practical difficulties of judging an incident while play continues, you are going to get players constantly wanting the VAR involved.
 
PinnerPaul said:
But you're taking away (wrongly) I believe in the principle of 1 man in charge.

Secondly if you allow ALL decisions to possibly be looked at by VAR, apart from the technical/practical difficulties of judging an incident while play continues, you are going to get players constantly wanting the VAR involved.
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I personally think "one man in charge" is rubbish - I think that's old-fashioned thinking and takes away from the credibility of the AR's and VAR's, all of who are qualified and experienced referees even at my level, let alone when you reach a level where VAR can be used. When I'm in the middle with NAR's, I tell them to lead me in areas of the pitch where they have more credibility (which I define as a 10m circle around them at all times and when they're closer than me if I've been caught out by a quick break). And I think there are certainly times where this principal should be extended to allow the VAR to be the most credible member of the refereeing team.

I'm also perfectly happy with the principal of taking the responsibility to decide if the VAR should be consulted out of the referees hands. Either let the VAR intervene only when he deems it appropriate (with the caveat that he should only do so if there is a mistake in law or a game-changing decision is being made), or my even more preferred option, introduce a limited number of manager challenges. The latter idea might have the added benefit of improving manager behaviour as well! Not happy with a decision? Challenge it formally or shut up!
 
The principle of one man in charge was removed when fourth officials were allowed to get involved in missed refereeing decisions.

My view has always been, and still remains, that it will only work if the man upstairs can make the decision. The referee at the side of the pitch watching a video replay is ridiculous, just trust in the guidance of the person that has watched multiple replays. It might well work at big international venues, but can you imagine at somewhere like Loftus Road, where the crowd are right on top of the touchlines?
 
RustyRef said:
The principle of one man in charge was removed when fourth officials were allowed to get involved in missed refereeing decisions.

My view has always been, and still remains, that it will only work if the man upstairs can make the decision. The referee at the side of the pitch watching a video replay is ridiculous, just trust in the guidance of the person that has watched multiple replays. It might well work at big international venues, but can you imagine at somewhere like Loftus Road, where the crowd are right on top of the touchlines?
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I'm quite looking forward to having a look at the monitor if it ends up at Loftus Road:p - given it will only be introduced at the top level initially, I'm not holding my breath!;)

My big problem with unilateral VAR decisions is it will become like I've been told Rugby League has become - pitch referee making no major decisions himself and leaving all to VAR - just to be on the safe side.

My other problem, that no one has ever answered is how do you correct an incorrectly raised offside flag - answer of course is you can't - which will in my view lead to all offsides being judged by VAR.

Restarts and ball in play after an 'incident' are also glossed over without real thought IMHO.

Managers challenges - a big no no for me - bound to be used for tactical/time consuming purposes
 
The German example there is great.....yes it might be a pen..for which the VAR intervened....but, it overlooks he was offside in the first place!

my view will always be.....striker misses a PK.
keeper lets in a easy shot
ref misses a handball
lino misses an offside

all human,...in perfect world nobody would do wrong but hey ho...they do
 
Ive had misgivings about VAR for a long while, my posts would back that up, there are a few positives but on the whole its a whole can of worms that once you open you can't go back on... Start reviewing everything and where do you stop, 10 seconds back, 30 seconds back, its a mess.... and who thought up that jog to the side by the ref needs his bumps feeling!!!
 
PinnerPaul said:
I'm quite looking forward to having a look at the monitor if it ends up at Loftus Road:p - given it will only be introduced at the top level initially, I'm not holding my breath!;)

My big problem with unilateral VAR decisions is it will become like I've been told Rugby League has become - pitch referee making no major decisions himself and leaving all to VAR - just to be on the safe side.

My other problem, that no one has ever answered is how do you correct an incorrectly raised offside flag - answer of course is you can't - which will in my view lead to all offsides being judged by VAR.

Restarts and ball in play after an 'incident' are also glossed over without real thought IMHO.

Managers challenges - a big no no for me - bound to be used for tactical/time consuming purposes
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Limit the number of challenges and/or punish a manager for an incorrect challenge and/or stop the clock while a challenge is underway and that problem goes away.
 
GraemeS said:
Limit the number of challenges and/or punish a manager for an incorrect challenge and/or stop the clock while a challenge is underway and that problem goes away.
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Sorry Graeme,

That is a gross over simplification - if a manager has challenge(s) left near the end of the game, then to slow the game down, hope to gain a few extra seconds, then they will use the challenge system to do that - much like we get subs on for 5 seconds now - why do they do that - serves no useful purpose except for tactical/'gamesmanship' reasons.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Sorry Graeme,

That is a gross over simplification - if a manager has challenge(s) left near the end of the game, then to slow the game down, hope to gain a few extra seconds, then they will use the challenge system to do that - much like we get subs on for 5 seconds now - why do they do that - serves no useful purpose except for tactical/'gamesmanship' reasons.
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But as you say, this already happens with subs anyway. So if we penalise a failed challenge with the loss of a sub, we're not introducing new delays, we're swapping a sub delay with a challenge delay.
 
GraemeS said:
But as you say, this already happens with subs anyway. So if we penalise a failed challenge with the loss of a sub, we're not introducing new delays, we're swapping a sub delay with a challenge delay.
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We're not swapping, we're adding - don't think we're going to change each other's minds Graeme, so will leave it at that!;)
 
On challenges, you could do one challenge per game per team. If the challenge is correct you keep it, if it’s wrong you lose it. Refs are mandated to stop their watch during the challenge (not just hold their arm in the air to make everyone think they’ve stopped their watch).

Overall I’d prefer we dump the whole sorry experiment. Goal-line technology is good, but for everything else the “human” aspect
is part of what makes the game interesting.
 
Darius said:
May I also add that you check every goal for offside/ball in or out of play automatically.
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No you may not. :)
This mean you can't genuinely celebrate any goal until it's confirmed by the VAR.
Atmosphere lost.
 
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Course you can. You just probably shouldn’t pull out the elaborate one you’ve been planning for six months in training if you think you’re close!

Don’t look at fouls, unless the team requests it and in that case they must state which player etc
 
As we've already discussed before on the forum and as is again said by some in this topic, two key changes should be made :

1) Video referee becomes head referee and makes the calls, on-field referee is basically just another assistant referee.
2) Teams should get a couple of VAR requests.

That'd solve many of the current problems. Problems we've for sure all predicted and that apparently only the (I suppose well-paid) IFAB experts couldn't see coming. Belgium started with VAR this season (not in all games though), they've evaluated it last week and they will officially ask IFAB to let the video referee make the calls. Let's see if IFAB can acknowledge their mistake and change this ahead of the World Cup.

Main problem that will remain will probably be "ball in play after VAR incident".

On a sidenote, I don't agree with the "referee mistakes are part of the game" theory. No, they're not. Yes, football is a game of mistakes... but mistakes made by the players. Good and bad decisions/skills by the players should decide a match, not those by the referee, who is just there to make sure the game is played by the rules.

Extra: there should be more and clear punishments for referees who still mess up, there are (in a lot of cases) no excuses anymore.
 
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