Really? What if he doesn't commit another offence for the next 10 minutes and scores 3 goals in that timeframe? If you're agreeing this is a cautionable offence, why on earth wouldn't you caution (and send him off) for it?
Double red card!
- Thread starter Sheffields Finest
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Everybody has their own tolerance.
If am second yellowing someone then I like it to be clear cut, and the whole stadium know why, and am not having to sell or justify my decision to anybody
Nothing set in stone but I find an unlikely overall to second yellow for a minor harmless technical offence.
I am confident I can manage the situation in the clip, either vocally, or, how about moving to the player, making it clear to all and sundry that if you step into the box here am doing you, so nobody can have any doubt at all as to what happened
Without the inside knowledge of our American poster on here, we would still be second guessing what has actually gone on here.
For me, if you sending a player off for stepping into the penalty area (because although as a referee I know thats not the case but thats how it will be viewed) , after 17 mins of the game, then you are going to have issues justifying a warning to anyone for the next 70 mins for a tackle
"Come on ref, our man got sent off for stepping into the box but you are not carding xxx for fouling our man?"
Brings me back to something I stand by. Its one thing knowing what a caution looks like. Its another thing to know when to do it
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Do you mean "come on ref, our man got sent off for delaying the restart of play?"
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I was trying to talk the way I would guess the players at our game would
Be that as it may, my point is still valid. "You sent our man off for delaying restart of play yet he tripped him there and you are not sanctioning that"
The point remains valid
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
And if you read my post, in the brackets, I had answered your post prior to you posting it
one
RefChat Addict
Do you mean next clear cautionable offence or just any clear offence (eg a clear careless foul)?
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
one
RefChat Addict
Are you saying you wouldn't have cautioned him for the stonewall reckless otherwise if it wasn't for the penalty kick delay incident?
I am trying to workout why you would say "am getting him for his next clear offence" when justifying not cautioning for the penalty incident.
Next incident is either a actionable offence or not. If it is you should caution him. If its not you shouldn't caution him. Nothing to do with the Penalty delay incident. Otherwise you would just be applying your own 'justice system' for yellows which is not according to the the LOTG.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
If the second yellow for the crazy dissent was for something that was said, I think the ref could have slowed everything down before delivering it.
He could have take a few steps back, lots of whistle then isolated the player (which would have taken time), waiting until he was calm (which admittedly would have taken a lot of time and needed the captain), then had words, and made some kind of jibber-jabber-gesture with the the hand so the whole stadium would know it was for verbals, and then given the second yellow and red. That would have looked much better IMHO and the ref would have demonstrated control.
As it was, it was unclear what the second yellow was for, and the ref rather stooped to the level of the player in delivering it...
He could have take a few steps back, lots of whistle then isolated the player (which would have taken time), waiting until he was calm (which admittedly would have taken a lot of time and needed the captain), then had words, and made some kind of jibber-jabber-gesture with the the hand so the whole stadium would know it was for verbals, and then given the second yellow and red. That would have looked much better IMHO and the ref would have demonstrated control.
As it was, it was unclear what the second yellow was for, and the ref rather stooped to the level of the player in delivering it...
Player commits a cautionable delaying the restart offence seconds after you warn his team not to waste any more time and you're still defending the idea that you wouldn't caution him because it's only a technical offence? And instead make up some other system wherby you wait for him to foul again and send him off for that instead? Maybe refereeing isn't for you....
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
No you are right, its not for me. Two mins whilst I put whistle in bin.
99.99% sure I have forgotten more about the game than the knowledge you will ever have and am glad you see fit to judge whether I should referee, would be better if you made those personal comments in private though, as am sure the other day a moderator asked that we all refrain from such public remarks. There is always one though who has to take that one step back into murky water and it seems like congratulations are in order, because that person is you.
RefJef
RefChat Addict
I think, in the video, it says that that yellow was for dissent, not delaying the restart?
I think there are strong grounds for this, if he has been specifically warned not to do so (encroach) because he has just done so, then a YC for dissent by action is justified and warranted.
@Ciley Myrus and @GraemeS ive banned you from replying to this post, if you would like to continue your bickering please do it in private
v
.....Back to the OP, looks messy but knowing the full details I’m sure most of us understand his reasoning!
I was a diamond footballer (down the boozer). I might even become a stellar ref (on refchat). However, the ref in the OP was in a real world bonkers situation. He may well have reflected back on the hullabaloo with some regrets identified in this thread. Despite the minor squabble above, some interesting reminders have been posted for us newbies to learn from. 1) don't be static in terms of movement 2) don't meet aggression with provocation 3) isolate the troublemakers 4) slow it down 5) fry big fish, not tiddlers
Easy...
Easy...
one
RefChat Addict
The point on not being static is an interesting one. A while back moving away from the penalty spot after awarding a penalty was very much the thing to do. You can hardly see it these days at top level. Look at the 29 gzilion penalties award in the world cup, or recent penalty decisions in the EPL. I can't remember the last time I saw a referee at a top flight game move to the recommended position on the goal line after awarding a penalty. I don't really know the reason for it. My best guess is the 'retreat' may show a sign of weakness a referee doesn't want to do.
The big problem I see is they consistently FAIL to address the blatant dissent when players surround them yelling and arguing. Send them away with visible arm motions and then give a yellow if they continue. This will continue to be an issue until referees at the top level consistently and as a group deal with the misconduct. Once they all know they will always get a yellow and possible suspension/fines afterward for touching a ref, surrounding a ref, etc, then we might see a change bbn in behavior
one
RefChat Addict
Agreed but I think the root of the problem is deeper than that. I have mentioned this before, it is the culture of football administrators who while in public condemn this sort of player actions, in practice don't support the referees who deal with it with cards. They look at them as a lesser referee and one who can't manage players. While it may not be an official policy, a referee can hardly get demoted for not yellow carding obvious dissents but instead 'managing' them, however it is easy to get demoted if they yellow card a couple of soft dissents instead of managing them.
Referees are stuck between a rock and a hard place and need a lot more public support (end enforcement) if they were to implement a zero tolerance style of mobbing of referees and dissent.