1) Thought on the initial penalty call and
2) what followed??
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Double red card!
- Thread starter Sheffields Finest
- Start date
1) Thought on the initial penalty call and
2) what followed??
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Pen kick and yc to defender
Even if for dissent, imo, lack of game managment by showing the 2nd yc and red.
Thats the kind of situation where you "get" the second player for his next clear obvious indiscretion.
As for the next double yellow, simply firing a yc into the air expecting it to calm down a player who has lost his plot is terrible officiating. You need to be calm, slow things down, Not simply stand there flashing cards into outer space
The card is a match control tool, not a weapon!
Hate to see a ref harrassed like that, but if its possible to mismanage something and create a nasty situation for yourself , then this is a good example of it
When you hear of grass roots refs sadly being assualted its because they handle situations as badly as this. Its not Moses and the parting of the Red Sea, simply standing there looking stern with a bit of plastic held aloft is not managing a situation
Even if for dissent, imo, lack of game managment by showing the 2nd yc and red.
Thats the kind of situation where you "get" the second player for his next clear obvious indiscretion.
As for the next double yellow, simply firing a yc into the air expecting it to calm down a player who has lost his plot is terrible officiating. You need to be calm, slow things down, Not simply stand there flashing cards into outer space
The card is a match control tool, not a weapon!
Hate to see a ref harrassed like that, but if its possible to mismanage something and create a nasty situation for yourself , then this is a good example of it
When you hear of grass roots refs sadly being assualted its because they handle situations as badly as this. Its not Moses and the parting of the Red Sea, simply standing there looking stern with a bit of plastic held aloft is not managing a situation
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Disgraceful scenes really. I think it would be harsh to fault the referee for anything under that workload. He looks as strong as an ox and thankfully therefore, wasn't intimidated in the slightest. But that's not the point, he was in a threatening situation. Do we have the World Cup to thank for such aggression?
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I see a ref with a stern face thrusting cards into angry players faces
What does he expect is going to happen! Red rag to a bulll stuff.
Age old thing also of giving a pk then standing on the pen spot, almost inviting players to have a go at him
Give it then get out wider/to goal line etc, that way anybody who comes to protest is easy singled out. Instead of standing there in a group of wolves!
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
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Not with this one. It occurred at the beginning of June. For whatever reason Shef came across it now.
Maybe you have a point. I don't think the ref looked aggressive as such
Unmoved is probably the best description
Which is kinda what you're saying... Unmoved! Except for his arms, which were more active that a dealer's at the Blackjack table
I'll take the point on board regarding movement. For when it next happens to moi!
A little more back story on this one.
The ref gave the PK and the VAR checked/confirmed the decision on the field. The defending team continued to attempt to delay the PK. 15 seconds before the first red card, the ref pointed to his shirt pocket and gave a very strong "no more". The defender who was already on a yellow then decided to walk into the penalty arc to pull up his sock so he was given a 2nd yellow for delaying the restart.
The ref gave the PK and the VAR checked/confirmed the decision on the field. The defending team continued to attempt to delay the PK. 15 seconds before the first red card, the ref pointed to his shirt pocket and gave a very strong "no more". The defender who was already on a yellow then decided to walk into the penalty arc to pull up his sock so he was given a 2nd yellow for delaying the restart.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Standing there ashen faced then, holding up a bit of plastic is making the situation worse for me. He never heard of the basics of isolating players, or slowing things down, or communication
Edited my posts due to the new found knowledge of clip!
Am not sending first guy off, am getting him for his next clear offence
Second guy, am dealing with his first caution more effectively and preventing it escalating the way it did.
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There's been quite a few incidents like this in the MLS recently it seems. The top players in Europe are still too busy rolling around on the floor (slightly lessor of two evils?)
While there continues to be the occasional "old" player coming to MLS (Rooney, Ibra, etc), the league has shifted towards attracting young South American players with the goal of selling them onto Europe.
As for incidents, it does seem like players do a lot of stupid stuff in MLS. There's been so many cases of a player sent off for VC during a confrontation when they put they hand into an opponents face/neck. People love to blame the refs for being harsh, but the LOTG are pretty clear.
Can't argue with those decisions then.
one
RefChat Addict
Initial penalty call. Its a tough one. He gets the ball first but then trips the attacker denying any chance of regaining possession or staying in the contest. I'd go with a penalty, only just. I may have missed it but I don't think the defender got a yellow card for this. it was a DOGSO yellow.
First red card. No issues with it. NO reason for the player (who is already on a yellow) to step inside the PA just before the penalty is taken. It was clearly an act of defiance after the penalty decision. He made it so obvious leaving the referee not much choice. Dissent or delaying the restart, take a pick.
Second red card. The only people who could have stopped #6 from getting sent off were #6 and possibly his team mates (#20 and #28 tried). He had lost the plot and I doubt any amount of player management would have kept him in. Both yellow cards were fully deserved.
Overall I think the referee did very good. The only thing I would say he should have changed was his delivery of the second yellow for #6. It looked the player had gotten under his skin and some emotion was mixed with the delivery of the card.
First red card. No issues with it. NO reason for the player (who is already on a yellow) to step inside the PA just before the penalty is taken. It was clearly an act of defiance after the penalty decision. He made it so obvious leaving the referee not much choice. Dissent or delaying the restart, take a pick.
Second red card. The only people who could have stopped #6 from getting sent off were #6 and possibly his team mates (#20 and #28 tried). He had lost the plot and I doubt any amount of player management would have kept him in. Both yellow cards were fully deserved.
Overall I think the referee did very good. The only thing I would say he should have changed was his delivery of the second yellow for #6. It looked the player had gotten under his skin and some emotion was mixed with the delivery of the card.
1st one – PK / YC. Even watching multiple replays it is very difficult to tell if the defender got a piece of the ball from behind. Here is the issue though (aside from announcers blathering on about how since there was a touch it should be play on…. Ugh). Even if there was a touch, which I think there might have been he then gets the attacker. On the follow through. The defender gets him in the outside of the leg and then hooks the attacker’s ankle. The attacker had a good chance of keeping possession or trying to win the ball back absent that. It is still a trip. PK. If CR felt it was DOGSO or SPA, I’m good with either.
1st Red – Sounds like they were talked to and there is no reason for him to be walking up beyond the arc like that. Looked like gamesmanship there trying to delay. I’d like to see the whole run up to that but clearly the CR had had enough. I’m good with DRP YC.
2nd Red - #6 is a loon and needs a lengthy ban. This was a shameful display. After the CR gave the RC, #6 actually put a forearm on the referee’s chest and gave him a slight push. This could be considered the manner in which it was done to be referee assault and a straight RC. He followed it up actually bumping heads with the CR as he was yelling in his face.
This was unbelievably heated. Difficulty to remain calm in the situation. At some point when the players are refusing to move away and persist in surrounding the referee, you no longer have the option of pulling the player away, talking to him then administering the card. I'm not certain he could have accomplished that if he had tried.
Now when I have had contentious PK calls and players getting bent, I simply walk into the spot asking who is the shooter, have the shooter (who has likely already gathered the ball hand me the ball then walk in to talk to the GK briefly. Anyone who follows me arguing really doesn't have a leg to stand on that they aren't guilty of dissent. Hasn't happened often. Last time, I told the group trying to argue, "I hear you. We're getting on with it. You need to get outside the PA or your going in the book now."
It certainly appears that MLS needs to clamp down the way EPL was supposed to on surrounding the referee, touching the referee, etc. This kind of conduct is ridiculous. Pushing the referee so that you can yell in his face while violently gesturing and protesting should be a straight RC.
1st Red – Sounds like they were talked to and there is no reason for him to be walking up beyond the arc like that. Looked like gamesmanship there trying to delay. I’d like to see the whole run up to that but clearly the CR had had enough. I’m good with DRP YC.
2nd Red - #6 is a loon and needs a lengthy ban. This was a shameful display. After the CR gave the RC, #6 actually put a forearm on the referee’s chest and gave him a slight push. This could be considered the manner in which it was done to be referee assault and a straight RC. He followed it up actually bumping heads with the CR as he was yelling in his face.
This was unbelievably heated. Difficulty to remain calm in the situation. At some point when the players are refusing to move away and persist in surrounding the referee, you no longer have the option of pulling the player away, talking to him then administering the card. I'm not certain he could have accomplished that if he had tried.
Now when I have had contentious PK calls and players getting bent, I simply walk into the spot asking who is the shooter, have the shooter (who has likely already gathered the ball hand me the ball then walk in to talk to the GK briefly. Anyone who follows me arguing really doesn't have a leg to stand on that they aren't guilty of dissent. Hasn't happened often. Last time, I told the group trying to argue, "I hear you. We're getting on with it. You need to get outside the PA or your going in the book now."
It certainly appears that MLS needs to clamp down the way EPL was supposed to on surrounding the referee, touching the referee, etc. This kind of conduct is ridiculous. Pushing the referee so that you can yell in his face while violently gesturing and protesting should be a straight RC.
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Everything, everything!
Penalty and yellow for the tackle as yes he gota touch on the ball played it to the attacker who regained control and then tripped him in the same movement deffo no red.
2nd yellow for encroaching good decision as he warned them not to. The player was a numpty doing it as he was on a yellow.
Yellow then re for no 6. If he had got a straight red as he was in the refs face aggresively I would be fine by that, the ref used a yellow to try and diffuse the situation but it it did not make the slightest amount of difference to the player. Maybe he should of tried to isolate the players like Miley says but the decisions to bin both players were good.
2nd yellow for encroaching good decision as he warned them not to. The player was a numpty doing it as he was on a yellow.
Yellow then re for no 6. If he had got a straight red as he was in the refs face aggresively I would be fine by that, the ref used a yellow to try and diffuse the situation but it it did not make the slightest amount of difference to the player. Maybe he should of tried to isolate the players like Miley says but the decisions to bin both players were good.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
The showing of the card made the second guy even more irate
The card is to be used as a control tool, this ref used it and it doubled up as a red rag to a bull
The reason it made no (positive) difference to the player was in the manner in which it was delivered, the ref fought fire with fire, and ended up in a nasty situation
These are human beings we are dealing with, standing there like the good lord himself in itself is not managing anything,
Far too quick flashing cards, no apprecIation for his surroundings, sorry but for me the ref brought that whole situation onto himself.
The card is to be used as a control tool, this ref used it and it doubled up as a red rag to a bull
The reason it made no (positive) difference to the player was in the manner in which it was delivered, the ref fought fire with fire, and ended up in a nasty situation
These are human beings we are dealing with, standing there like the good lord himself in itself is not managing anything,
Far too quick flashing cards, no apprecIation for his surroundings, sorry but for me the ref brought that whole situation onto himself.