A&H

Dissent

NickWilliamsLDSL

NickWilliamsLDSL

New Member
Level 9 Referee
I'm a relatively new ref and I've done a handful of games now. I find them to be intense and foul language flows but I haven't yet given a caution for dissent.

I basically want to know how effective people have found yellow cards for dissent to be? I have never been threatened nor had my authority questioned but I very often get the likes of:
F off ref
How the f is that a/ not a freekick
That's bull etc.

It doesn't wind me up and I often smile it off but if yellows actually makes it stop then I'll go for it; if it will just wind them up further then I won't.

Advice/examples would be appreciated.
 
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After the incredibly helpful comment from Padfoot, I'm not sure if there is too much more I can really add. :hmmm:

Remember that dissent is basically anything which disagrees with a decision you have made. However, do take into account how the comments are said and whether any expletives have been used. Using your examples, something like 'f*** off' for me, would always be a caution if it is loud enough for another player to hear. If comments are kept quiet and internal, let them get on with it. You don't want to be the referee who sees every deflection and hears every small comment - it will harm your match control, sometimes there is nothing wrong with giving the wrong decision if it is the right decision in the eyes of the players. Same with dissent, if it is a comment that only you have heard, chances are, selling that decision will cost you a lot of time and possibly a level of your match control. However, if it is loud enough for anyone else to hear it, deal with it.

Bear in mind that also whatever you do not choose to punish, the players will use against you. If you allow players to openly disagree with a decision you have made in a way which may undermine your authority, through the use of expletives, etc. other players will pick up on it and may also start chipping in. It would be very hard for you to then pull the game back under your control. In a situation like that, then you would probably be wise to start cracking down and dealing with it. Not with necessarily a caution, but by speaking to the captain with the player involved and let them know that it is unacceptable and he is walking a tight rope, etc.

Also do take into account that the players have to pay fines for each caution you give out. As far as I know, a caution is £10 and a dismissal is £40 (may be completely wrong)? As a player, would you really want to risk a £30 extra fine and keep chipping away once you have already received a caution for dissent. Generally it should do the trick and keep the players quiet and off of your back. Try to find a balance which helps you though, rushing in with a card too early could well set you up for a busy game - also not every disagreement with a decision is dissent.
 
Do people really need to be told that "f**k off ref" is at the very least a caution?

And if you're worried that a caution might not be effective for dissent.....what is the alternative? Ignore it and hope the nasty man shuts up?

The op recognises it as dissent but is worried about a yellow card working or not.......it doesn't matter if it works or not....it's a mandatory caution. If it doesn't work a 2nd will be following quite quickly......or maybe not? If the first one didn't work maybe let's not bother with the next one?
 
Padfoot said:
Do people really need to be told that "f**k off ref" is at the very least a caution?

And if you're worried that a caution might not be effective for dissent.....what is the alternative? Ignore it and hope the nasty man shuts up?

The op recognises it as dissent but is worried about a yellow card working or not.......it doesn't matter if it works or not....it's a mandatory caution. If it doesn't work a 2nd will be following quite quickly......or maybe not? If the fi
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Well first off mate, I don't see them as 'nasty men'. The many occasions a player has later apologised for their language has made me glad I didn't book them.
I'm content with my game control. I haven't had to caution anyone for a reckless challenge yet so I'm not turning my games into bloodbaths.
Referees in the pro game sometimes ignore 'f offs' from players so it's a perfectly legitimate question.
I'm sure that with the speed at which you turned to providing a patronising response to my post, the players you referee enjoy your authority.
 
Game control?

If you're worrying whether a caution will wind a player up then you have none.

If players are telling you to 'f**k off' and questioning your decisions they are questioning your authority. The fact you don't recognise that is worrying considering you claim to be a teacher.

Honestly, I think you're just on a wind up.
 
Padfoot said:
Game control?

If you're worrying whether a caution will wind a player up then you have none.

If players are telling you to 'f**k off' and questioning your decisions they are questioning your authority. The fact you don't recognise that is worrying considering you claim to be a teacher.

Honestly, I think you're just on a wind up.
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I'm pretty sure you can be in control of a situation even if people are questioning you. Kids can be far more challenging to remain in authority of than a few angry footballers for sure! haha
 
I agree with Padfoot (about the ignoring obvious dissent, not the other stuff - while I remember, @Padfoot tone down the personal stuff - that comment about his professional life is not needed), someone tells me to f*ck off and they can expect repercussions, possibly an earlier than advertised solo shower while we carry on the match without him (context is important here as to whether it is a red or caution).

Ask yourself, Are you there to be abused? Is that what you think refereeing is about? Are you happy that bystanders and others around the pitch are hearing such a vile amount of foul language from a game you are refereeing? do you have so little self respect that you deserve so little respect on the field of play?

All them answers should be 100% no.

Just remember that aside from the obvious dissent and use of offensive, insulting or abusive language, part of your role as referee is to protect the image of the game - players swearing without any control from you is very poor and portrays football in a very poor light. I think you know this from your post. You say you are managing games well, but I would perhaps suggest you are just letting some idiots get away with murder. Making a rod for your own back mate - old referee wisdom: what you do not punish, you encourage and sooner or later the wheels are going to come off. Especially when you get better games when the play is faster and more intense and the behaviour from the players more difficult to manage once they realise they can take the p*ss.

Good refereeing is preventing problems - nipping this nonsense in the bud early in the game. A strong word from you, involving the captain to make clear your tolerance has been reached or resorting to cards - make sure you are not letting this happen without reaction and if a line is crossed, do not worry about going to the pocket. Players respect strong referees who are clear in their boundaries. They will take massive liberties with referees who just let them get away with murder.

One last point - I obviously cannot see what is happening in your matches, but you haven't had a single reckless challenge yet? lol just a thought but you are either the luckiest referee in the world or you haven't learned to identify them properly yet :D
 
In my game yesterday a player said, 'Feck off reff' very early on. I called him in with his captain and loud enough for all to hear told him it was not acceptable and the next one from anyone would lead to a card. Didn't happen again !
 
Duncan Francis said:
In my game yesterday a player said, 'Feck off reff' very early on. I called him in with his captain and loud enough for all to hear told him it was not acceptable and the next one from anyone would lead to a card. Didn't happen again !
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Be seen to be doing something, that's what I would ask as an assessor. You did that in this situation and it was the correct action depending on the volume of the comment, the distance from you when it was made and also whether it was accompanied with any waving arm style gestures.
 
NickWilliamsLDSL said:
I'm a relatively new ref and I've done a handful of games now. I find them to be intense and foul language flows but I haven't yet given a caution for dissent.

I basically want to know how effective people have found yellow cards for dissent to be? I have never been threatened nor had my authority questioned but I very often get the likes of:
F off ref
How the f is that a/ not a freekick
That's bull etc.

It doesn't wind me up and I often smile it off but if yellows actually makes it stop then I'll go for it; if it will just wind them up further then I won't.

Advice/examples would be appreciated.
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It doesn't matter whether it winds you up, you are allowing challenges to your authority on the field of play. Also you are in danger of making life more difficult for the referee who has to referee those teams the following week. Each one of those comments depending on volume, distance and accompanying animated gestures is a nailed on caution for dissent. If it was said from less than 5 yards, I might let them get away with a quick word. If much more than that and the "said" became a shout and the shout was accompanied by some waving of the arms, then it's a caution.

You are not doing yourself or your fellow referees any favours by not taking action. As for the comment that you have not yet had a reckless challenge in your games, I would like to know what age group and how many games you have done?
 
I just did my fourth open age game today. Had a reckless challenge go in from behind so I brought out my first card.
I honestly didn't have any challenges up until today that even got me wondering about giving a caution. All I'm having to deal with is careless little trips and the occasional pulling back.
Two very well behaved teams today. One guy shouted f off when I didn't give him a corner. I gave him a warning and he apologised at half time. But other than that, it was very straightforward.
I realise that after today, perhaps the swearing that went on in first few games isn't normal and I'll definitely pull it up in future games.
 
NickWilliamsLDSL said:
I just did my fourth open age game today. Had a reckless challenge go in from behind so I brought out my first card.
I honestly didn't have any challenges up until today that even got me wondering about giving a caution. All I'm having to deal with is careless little trips and the occasional pulling back.
Two very well behaved teams today. One guy shouted f off when I didn't give him a corner. I gave him a warning and he apologised at half time. But other than that, it was very straightforward.
I realise that after today, perhaps the swearing that went on in first few games isn't normal and I'll definitely pull it up in future games.
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When you cautioned, what procedure did you follow?
 
Brian Hamilton said:
When you cautioned, what procedure did you follow?
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For the reckless challenge?
I blew up for the obvious freekick, he claimed he got the ball, I agreed but said in order to do so he recklessly left the ground and went through the back of the player. I then asked for his surname, he gave it, and I showed him the yellow card.
 
NickWilliamsLDSL said:
For the reckless challenge?
I blew up for the obvious freekick, he claimed he got the ball, I agreed but said in order to do so he recklessly left the ground and went through the back of the player. I then asked for his surname, he gave it, and I showed him the yellow card.
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You should isolate the player from all the other players making sure you have a viewpoint where you can see as many of the remaining players on the field as possible. You should ask for his full name not just his surname. What if two brothers were playing in the same team or two players with the same surname?

You also need to warn the player about his future conduct so you might just avoid having to issue a second caution later in the game.

You should show the yellow card above your head in an non-aggressive manner. The easiest way to do that is to raise it up from the side of your body as you would do with your arm when signalling an IDFK. I'm sure it will all come with experience as the cards mount up through the season.
 
As in he made a sliding challenge from behind yes.
Got the ball with his right leg and then cleared through the player with the rest of his momentum.
The kind of challenge TV pundits still describe as good old fashioned challenges.
 
Darius said:
He left the ground:alien:
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Coupled with the speed of the approach, a caution is entirely acceptable in this situation. The player has lost control of his trajectory by leaving the ground, so contact with the opponent and playing the ball means a caution (at least).
 
NickWilliamsLDSL said:
As in he made a sliding challenge from behind yes.
Got the ball with his right leg and then cleared through the player with the rest of his momentum.
The kind of challenge TV pundits still describe as good old fashioned challenges.
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So he didn't leave the ground? If he's sliding he's still in contact with the ground. So which was it?
 
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