A&H

Crowding of referees

lincs22

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
There is now huge commentary regarding the crowding of referee at MKI's. Players wanting cards for offences, etc. Then other wanting cards for players crowding the referee, when there is no offence. All very childish!!!!

But the one constant - where is any comments from the PFA about this. They should be coming out and saying to their members to stop this abuse to referees. They say they act for the benefit of football, but radio silence from them isn't helping them.

We / The media need to start asking the PFA to comment on actions - so, the starting point should be

- Do they support Pickford running 40+ yards to remonstrate with the referee last night? OR
- what action would they recommend against Mitrovic for the assault on Chris Kavanagh?
 
The Referee Store
lincs22 said:
There is now huge commentary regarding the crowding of referee at MKI's. Players wanting cards for offences, etc. Then other wanting cards for players crowding the referee, when there is no offence. All very childish!!!!

But the one constant - where is any comments from the PFA about this. They should be coming out and saying to their members to stop this abuse to referees. They say they act for the benefit of football, but radio silence from them isn't helping them.

We / The media need to start asking the PFA to comment on actions - so, the starting point should be

- Do they support Pickford running 40+ yards to remonstrate with the referee last night? OR
- what action would they recommend against Mitrovic for the assault on Chris Kavanagh?
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You/we already know how they feel else the players wouldn't do it.
Referees are just nerds who don't understand football at worst, the match pantomime bad-guy at best.
I don't think there is any desire at that level to change things either.
(IMO) the most we can ever hope for is something akin to the "player citing" process that they have in rugby where infractions and misdemeanours like crowding could be identified retrospectively by a video panel and players given match bans for it.
Pigs might fly though ...
 
As I've posted before, a lot of this behavior is not hard to stop--leagues just have to give a damn. In the US, both the NBA and NHL (ice hockey) have managed to change the behavior of their millionaire players by putting in sufficient sanctions to deter the conduct. Leagues seem to fear the suspensions of players and use that to justify not taking the actions. But what they lose sight of is that if the sanctions are announced an applied players stop doing it. It is extremely rare, now, that an NBA player bumps a referee--because they know it is an automatic dismissal and a suspension. As much as we joke about it, players aren't stupid--they do things they know they can get away with. @Kes is dead on when he says there simply isn't any desire at the top levels to change the behaviour. They must think it is part of the spectacle. If they wanted it to stop, it isn't hard at all to make that happen. It just takes desire.
 
There has to be stronger sanctions, miniscule fines won't make a bit of difference. Take Wolves, recently fined £57,000 for failing to control their players against Leeds. That's way less than their top earners get paid in a week and just a tiny fraction of their weekly wage bill.

The only thing that will have an effect is much bigger fines and the threat of points deductions. For a first offence fine them whatever their total weekly wage bill is, second offence same fine but a 1 point deduction, third offence same fine but 2 point deduction, and so on. That would soon sort it out.
 
RustyRef said:
There has to be stronger sanctions, miniscule fines won't make a bit of difference. Take Wolves, recently fined £57,000 for failing to control their players against Leeds. That's way less than their top earners get paid in a week and just a tiny fraction of their weekly wage bill.

The only thing that will have an effect is much bigger fines and the threat of points deductions. For a first offence fine them whatever their total weekly wage bill is, second offence same fine but a 1 point deduction, third offence same fine but 2 point deduction, and so on. That would soon sort it out.
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Even as a Wolves fan, I agree that their behaviour is getting on my nerves. Yes, I think there have been issues with VAR decisions, and I think that struggling teams notice it more than better teams, naturally. However, they have gotten into the habit of play acting more than they should and constantly appealing for decisions and crowding (and arguably intimidating) the referee.

It needs to stop, and I think there should be a sanction ladder. Fine, Larger fine, suspended points deduction, points deduction.

I am not sure how it could be implimented and if it is even a good idea, but I just want to see it out of the game - I want to see football, not moaning. If you want drama, watch a soap opera!
 
The PFA is a Union and only exists due to payments from players. There's no way they'll do anything that disadvantages players like call for measures which may effect their membership.

Fines should be assessed on turnover, like the HSE does. 1% of turnover fine for any club who's player/manager abuses a referee. It would stop most instances tomorrow.
 
Ben448844 said:
The PFA is a Union and only exists due to payments from players. There's no way they'll do anything that disadvantages players like call for measures which may effect their membership.

Fines should be assessed on turnover, like the HSE does. 1% of turnover fine for any club who's player/manager abuses a referee. It would stop most instances tomorrow.
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I don't think fines are the answer.
Points deductions would effect both the clubs and the players so would be more of an "incentive". Match bans might also provide that. It's individual players that need controlling, not their clubs and supporters.
 
Watching the highlights to the Everton-Tottenham game, it irritated me to see Jordan Pickford run half way across the pitch to confront the referee. Should have been booked for it.
 
lalec03 said:
Watching the highlights to the Everton-Tottenham game, it irritated me to see Jordan Pickford run half way across the pitch to confront the referee. Should have been booked for it.
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Without doubt. When VAR came in, I thought it would used it for things like that and mass confrontations, where the ref and the asssitants can't see everything. And as for Kane, what an awful role model as the england skipper !
 
Ben448844 said:
Fines should be assessed on turnover, like the HSE does. 1% of turnover fine for any club who's player/manager abuses a referee. It would stop most instances tomorrow.
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If fines are to be a solution, it should the relevant players being fined one weeks wages. Once they realise that they have played for nothing that week, that may consternate their minds. 🤑💴
 
lincs22 said:
If fines are to be a solution, it should the relevant players being fined one weeks wages. Once they realise that they have played for nothing that week, that may consternate their minds. 🤑💴
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Works for normal people who actually need their wage each week - not going to make a jot of difference to anyone in the top league and at a guess about 50% in the Championship!
 
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Ben448844 said:
Fines should be assessed on turnover, like the HSE does. 1% of turnover fine for any club who's player/manager abuses a referee. It would stop most instances tomorrow.
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With more fines should come transparency as to what happens with fines. One thing is to punish players, but who are the actual beneficiaries of these fines?
 
Should introduce what Jarrit did inadvertently - two's company, three's a crowd! Third and any further player to crowd a Ref gets an automatic yellow card. That would work across all levels.
 
Mac said:
Should introduce what Jarrit did inadvertently - two's company, three's a crowd! Third and any further player to crowd a Ref gets an automatic yellow card. That would work across all levels.
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There are lots of things that would work. That isn’t really the issue, as Rs already have tools they can use. The issue is that leagues don’t want refs to use the tools, as they don’t want cards to accumulate or games to have reduced players. What is needed is for leagues to want the behavior to stop. If they really want the behavior to stop, then refs can start giving cards under existing Laws. But today players know the refs aren’t giving those cards because the powers that be don’t want them. They may publicly wring their hands from time to time, but the simple reality is that refs do what is expected by those thay control their fate, and they aren’t giving cards that the powers that be don’t want.
 
Jarred has since that Wolves second yellow dissent/red card, has been appointed to 2 EPL middles in 10 weeks. Not sure how you can get in to any sort of rhythm at the Elite level if you don’t get appointed. In the same ten weeks, Michael Oliver has had 7 EPL middles & 3 European middles. Is that feedback, on that decision?
 
Ben448844 said:
The PFA is a Union and only exists due to payments from players. There's no way they'll do anything that disadvantages players like call for measures which may effect their membership.

Fines should be assessed on turnover, like the HSE does. 1% of turnover fine for any club who's player/manager abuses a referee. It would stop most instances tomorrow.
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Exactly ! They could stop this overnight if they wanted to. But they're too weak and scared of the Premier League.
Better still, ban them or deduct points. Some clubs are happy to throw money about to resolve situations, but they'd think twice if they were retrospectively banned or deducted crucial points.
 
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