Continuation of did the player do anything to move hand away........

[Big Cat]

Handball esp at the moment seems two tier
"They " would give it and directives back it up
"We" would not and the lotg back us up

Which aint really right.

The more of the 'Match Video Situations' i watch, the more i realize how big the disconnect is between the book and the guidelines. The analysis of handball is aligned with observations from the World Cup, equating to more goals please regardless of whether that's fair. I think I'd rather sack off refereeing before giving some of the penalties they're indicating herein. I'd be giving double the number of yellows at grass roots and losing all credibility. I'm already aggressive with cards, but this guidance is of limited use to most of us; surely

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Am same.....i dont need to impress or satisfy anybody to give pens when the ball hits a hand, far less a card
Until someone puts me in a tank and waterboards me out of the word....deiberate.....then unless I deem it deliberate then it wont be given
Call me a martyr or a fool, I already take cards when directives over rule my mind but I will not penalise handball as per the original clip

 

[Big Cat]

Am same.....i dont need to impress or satisfy anybody to give pens when the ball hits a hand, far less a card
Until someone puts me in a tank and waterboards me out of the word....deiberate.....then unless I deem it deliberate then it wont be given
Call me a martyr or a fool, I already take cards when directives over rule my mind but I will not penalise handball as per the original clip

According to the UEFA propaganda, it's a penalty unless your hands are tucked in by your side, regardless of running, jumping or just existing. Honestly, i'd rather be marked down than undermine the fairness of a game. Maybe this material is aimed at elite level only. There are some Premier League refs who seem to have bought into the philosophy, but i'd say the best referees have not. I'm happy with the rule as per the book and intend to stick with it as i don't want to break something that isn't broken (in my game)

 

[Brian Hamilton]

According to the UEFA propaganda, it's a penalty unless your hands are tucked in by your side, regardless of running, jumping or just existing. Honestly, i'd rather be marked down than undermine the fairness of a game. Maybe this material is aimed at elite level only. There are some Premier League refs who seem to have bought into the philosophy, but i'd say the best referees have not. I'm happy with the rule as per the book and intend to stick with it as i don't want to break something that isn't broken (in my game)

It's not propaganda. Referees in the professional game work on the basis that the player is a highly trained, finely tuned athlete and as such nothing they do happens by accident. Therefore if an arm is out, it's out deliberately. At the levels most forum users operate, players don't have that degree of control over their limbs, hence the higher frequency that referees rightly judge the contact of the ball with the hand as not deliberate.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

It's not propaganda. Referees in the professional game work on the basis that the player is a highly trained, finely tuned athlete and as such nothing they do happens by accident. Therefore if an arm is out, it's out deliberately. At the levels most forum users operate, players don't have that degree of control over their limbs, hence the higher frequency that referees rightly judge the contact of the ball with the hand as not deliberate.

I agree with the above
Which adds fuel to my post
Same laws. Two tiers
Which aint right

 

[one]

It's not propaganda. Referees in the professional game work on the basis that the player is a highly trained, finely tuned athlete and as such nothing they do happens by accident. Therefore if an arm is out, it's out deliberately. At the levels most forum users operate, players don't have that degree of control over their limbs, hence the higher frequency that referees rightly judge the contact of the ball with the hand as not deliberate.

"Professional game referee trainers" giving some of these players way too much credit.

There is plenty more where that came from

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Handball esp at the moment seems two tier
"They " would give it and directives back it up
"We" would not and the lotg back us up

Which aint really right.

I don't think any directives would support this offence

 

[Peter Grove]

I have seen people interpreting as the position of the hand is not a consideration (even on this forum) at all and I don't blame them. As i said it just confuses things.

I could be wrong but I don't recall anyone having said that - at least not as a general rule, applicable to all situations. Maybe in a specific instance you might say that the position of the hand is not the deciding factor but I don't think you can make a blanket statement to that effect.

I think what this provision is meant to convey is that the position of the hand cannot be taken on its own as the singular and definitive factor in deciding that a particular instance of handling is deliberate. I have certainly seen (and heard) people say that the decision can be made based on the position of the hand alone. It usually goes something along the lines of, "The hand (or arm) was in an unnatural position, therefore it was deliberate."

For me, the law is telling us that this is not necessarily the case - the position of the hand is certainly something to be taken into consideration but it isn't necessarily to be relied on all by itself - the referee still needs to decide whether the hand/arm is positioned that way as part of the deliberate act of making contact with the ball with the hand, or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply telling us not to be over-reliant on this one factor alone - you have to consider all relevant factors before deciding.

 

[Big Cat]

It's not propaganda. Referees in the professional game work on the basis that the player is a highly trained, finely tuned athlete and as such nothing they do happens by accident. Therefore if an arm is out, it's out deliberately. At the levels most forum users operate, players don't have that degree of control over their limbs, hence the higher frequency that referees rightly judge the contact of the ball with the hand as not deliberate.

OK, i use the term propaganda when mildly irritated!
Whilst i accept that the elite footballer will be better practised at avoiding handball (and therefore a different tolerance level is justified), I don't accept that the laws of physics and the kinetics of player movement is any different for players of different ability levels. We all have comparable reaction times and we all need our arms to run, jump and for balance. So i'm rejecting the teachings on this basis and would suggest the true motivation is to get more goals into the game, regardless of fairness

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

OK, i use the term propaganda when mildly irritated!
Whilst i accept that the elite footballer will be better practised at avoiding handball (and therefore a different tolerance level is justified), I don't accept that the laws of physics and the kinetics of player movement is any different for players of different ability levels. We all have comparable reaction times and we all need our arms to run, jump and for balance. So i'm rejecting the teachings on this basis and would suggest the true motivation is to get more goals into the game, regardless of fairness

That's not what Brian is saying at all - just that players have a responsibility to consider where their arm is to start with.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

That's not what Brian is saying at all - just that players have a responsibility to consider where their arm is to start with.

So going back to the original clip, if there is a perfect non controversial place for her arms to be, then surely thats where they are!
The fact the striker then flicks the ball onto the defenders arm is the doing of the striker, nothing the defender has done

 

[one]

I could be wrong but I don't recall anyone having said that - at least not as a general rule, applicable to all situations. Maybe in a specific instance you might say that the position of the hand is not the deciding factor but I don't think you can make a blanket statement to that effect.

I think what this provision is meant to convey is that the position of the hand cannot be taken on its own as the singular and definitive factor in deciding that a particular instance of handling is deliberate. I have certainly seen (and heard) people say that the decision can be made based on the position of the hand alone. It usually goes something along the lines of, "The hand (or arm) was in an unnatural position, therefore it was deliberate."

For me, the law is telling us that this is not necessarily the case - the position of the hand is certainly something to be taken into consideration but it isn't necessarily to be relied on all by itself - the referee still needs to decide whether the hand/arm is positioned that way as part of the deliberate act of making contact with the ball with the hand, or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply telling us not to be over-reliant on this one factor alone - you have to consider all relevant factors before deciding.

I am not disputing what it means. I am criticising how it is communicated/worded which is confusing and makes it seem redundant or in a way that suggests discounting the consideration. Compare it to the other two considerations for deliberate handball. Neither of them are to be taken as the singular definitive factor yet they are given as a straight forward consideration. It does not say for example "the movement of the hand towards the ball does not necessarily mean that there is an offence" or " the distance between the opponent and the ball does not necessarily mean that there is an offence". I have seen and heard people use either of the other two as a single reason for their decision yet the consideration is clearly is as part of the group of considerations.

 

[spuddy1878]

Ridiculous decision.

Ask yourself this, if given you would get 10 outfield players from the defending team having a pop, if you dont give it you probably have one or two asking the question.

Never in a million years.