Consistency of tolerance in EPL

[one]

Bit of a rant really. Not happy with variations on tolerance level on many things both for referee and VAR.
We have seen SFP on some fouls that most would give only a yellow. We have also seen some SFP ignored all together.
Handball, is just unpredictable.
Dissent mostly ignored but sometimes isn't.
Push and pull in the area on corners was ignored until yesterday's pen for man U. Definitely a pen but I had seen worse ignored.
And I saw two quick fire DR in Palace v Forest around 52 minute mark. First one for forest who was trailing the game. Same game longer delays ignored.
Don't get me started on DOGSO.

Very difficult to predict what the referees would decide.

 

[Runner Ref]

I pretty much said this in another thread. A lot of it does feel like a lottery at the moment

 

[Josh the referee]

I was watching the Palace V Forest Game. To be fair to AT he did warn the Forest keeper about 4 or 5 times in the first half

 

[ladbroke8745]

Bit of a rant really. Not happy with variations on tolerance level on many things both for referee and VAR.
We have seen SFP on some fouls that most would give only a yellow. We have also seen some SFP ignored all together.
Handball, is just unpredictable.
Dissent mostly ignored but sometimes isn't.
Push and pull in the area on corners was ignored until yesterday's pen for man U. Definitely a pen but I had seen worse ignored.
And I saw two quick fire DR in Palace v Forest around 52 minute mark. First one for forest who was trailing the game. Same game longer delays ignored.
Don't get me started on DOGSO.

Very difficult to predict what the referees would decide.

Kelleher was cautioned for DR around 50th minute in the Brentford v Aston Villa. He was just about to run to kick it. He didn't waste any time. If continued for the entire season, I'm all for it. I hated the 87th minute useless cautions where they've done it all game. But some cases I've seen so far are too drastic.

 

[DavidObs]

If every Referee on this forum went to see a fellow member, I can guarantee that they would see at least some incidences in the game differently - this is the nature of Refereeing. Referees are not robots & they can interpret certain things differently and depending upon their positioning etc. As Jimmy Hill once said many years ago (& he had seen the game from all different perspectives), the Referee should be consistent within the game he his doing - much to be said for that.

 

[Kes]

"Tool"arance?
You've certainly upped your game too eh?

 

[Archer]

I had two f*cking great games this weekend, come and watch me. I'll even give you a F50 bonus point.

 

[one]

I had two f*cking great games this weekend, come and watch me. I'll even give you a F50 bonus point.

You pay for my airfare, I"ll pay for accomodation myself. And l can do your line for no charge

 

[one]

Bit of a rant really. Not happy with variations on tolerance level on many things both for referee and VAR.
We have seen SFP on some fouls that most would give only a yellow. We have also seen some SFP ignored all together.
Handball, is just unpredictable.
Dissent mostly ignored but sometimes isn't.
Push and pull in the area on corners was ignored until yesterday's pen for man U. Definitely a pen but I had seen worse ignored.
And I saw two quick fire DR in Palace v Forest around 52 minute mark. First one for forest who was trailing the game. Same game longer delays ignored.
Don't get me started on DOGSO.

Very difficult to predict what the referees would decide.

Hasn't got any better judging by last couple of rounds.

 

[ladbroke8745]

Bit of a rant really. Not happy with variations on tolerance level on many things both for referee and VAR.
We have seen SFP on some fouls that most would give only a yellow. We have also seen some SFP ignored all together.
Handball, is just unpredictable.
Dissent mostly ignored but sometimes isn't.
Push and pull in the area on corners was ignored until yesterday's pen for man U. Definitely a pen but I had seen worse ignored.
And I saw two quick fire DR in Palace v Forest around 52 minute mark. First one for forest who was trailing the game. Same game longer delays ignored.
Don't get me started on DOGSO.

Very difficult to predict what the referees would decide.

Hasn't got any better judging by last couple of rounds.

Joelinton cautioned yesterday (missed why as was working whilst trying to watch it too)...
But I did see the card issued.
From the yellow being branded, Joelinton then proceeded to applaud the ref a couple of times and for a couple seconds each time, even directing the latter straight at him.

At first, I thought he might be clapping to encourage players more but was clear it was aimed at the ref.

Nothing more done.

 

[one]

Joelinton cautioned yesterday (missed why as was working whilst trying to watch it too)...
But I did see the card issued.
From the yellow being branded, Joelinton then proceeded to applaud the ref a couple of times and for a couple seconds each time, even directing the latter straight at him.

At first, I thought he might be clapping to encourage players more but was clear it was aimed at the ref.

Nothing more done.

Yeah I saw that and the first thing that came to mind was that he put JG in an absolute no win situation. Had JG given him a second yellow (and Arsenal won regardless) JG would have been cursified and probably loose his ranking/standing. He would have been going against the grain as no other referee would give a second yellow for it in a game like that. Giving him a talking to would have just escalated it further. Ignoring it just sends the wrong message to everyone. Really he had no good option. He chose the least bad.

Overall I think he did a very good job given the occasion and the degree of difficulty of the game. He looked reluctant to accept the VAR recommendation on no penalty but again he had no good option once called to the screen.

 

[RefereeX]

Yeah I saw that and the first thing that came to mind was that he put JG in an absolute no win situation. Had JG given him a second yellow (and Arsenal won regardless) JG would have been cursified and probably loose his ranking/standing. He would have been going against the grain as no other referee would give a second yellow for it in a game like that. Giving him a talking to would have just escalated it further. Ignoring it just sends the wrong message to everyone. Really he had no good option. He chose the least bad.

Overall I think he did a very good job given the occasion and the degree of difficulty of the game. He looked reluctant to accept the VAR recommendation on no penalty but again he had no good option once called to the screen.

Exactly this.

And to add further context, the first caution, I believe, was for delaying the restart.

Nobody high up really wants to see a player sent off for delaying the restart and sarcastic applause, despite the fact it would be deserved.

 

[Paul_10]

Exactly this.

And to add further context, the first caution, I believe, was for delaying the restart.

Nobody high up really wants to see a player sent off for delaying the restart and sarcastic applause, despite the fact it would be deserved.

And this is the problem with refereeing in England, we are too worried what everyone else thinks and forget about the laws of the game. If Joelinton was addressing his clapping towards the ref then it's only himself to blame if he got a second yellow.

It has happened before a Premier League player(Zaha) getting a second yellow for sarcastic clapping and the pundit(shearer) backing the referee.

 

[RustyRef]

Joelinton cautioned yesterday (missed why as was working whilst trying to watch it too)...
But I did see the card issued.
From the yellow being branded, Joelinton then proceeded to applaud the ref a couple of times and for a couple seconds each time, even directing the latter straight at him.

At first, I thought he might be clapping to encourage players more but was clear it was aimed at the ref.

Nothing more done.

I thought that at first, but I actually think he was clapping the Arsenal player who had demanded he was cautioned, who by that point was stood behind the referee.

 

[Runner Ref]

Nobody high up really wants to see a player sent off for delaying the restart and sarcastic applause, despite the fact it would be deserved.

Says who? Who are these people high up that we need to pander to?

It’s one thing to ignore verbal offinabus/dissent as they did in the game the other week, as they can justify it (as people did here) as ‘barely anyone will have seen/heard it’, but physical dissent as obvious as this cannot be ignored. Only possible excuse is weak refereeing.

 

[RefereeX]

Says who? Who are these people high up that we need to pander to?

It’s one thing to ignore verbal offinabus/dissent as they did in the game the other week, as they can justify it (as people did here) as ‘barely anyone will have seen/heard it’, but physical dissent as obvious as this cannot be ignored. Only possible excuse is weak refereeing.

Is it weak refereeing if he’s following the advice he’s been given?
This conversation has taken place over and over, but it’s hardly a surprise to people, and I think you know you’re unlikely to see a second caution for that, so I’m not sure why point you’re trying to make?
Whether you agree or not, it’s not exactly new

 

[Runner Ref]

Is it weak refereeing if he’s following the advice he’s been given?
This conversation has taken place over and over, but it’s hardly a surprise to people, and I think you know you’re unlikely to see a second caution for that, so I’m not sure why point you’re trying to make?
Whether you agree or not, it’s not exactly new

There is advice that says ignore extremely obvious dissent if it leads to a second caution?

I know I’m unlikely to see it in England, yes. Why? Because we seem to just be making a lot of stuff up as we go along at the moment. Much to the detriment of the game.

They don’t know when VAR should and shouldn’t get involved. They don’t seem to understand what to classify as handball. Poor at identifying SFP. Ignore obvious dissent.

Is this to please the higher ups?

 

[RustyRef]

There is advice that says ignore extremely obvious dissent if it leads to a second caution?

I know I’m unlikely to see it in England, yes. Why? Because we seem to just be making a lot of stuff up as we go along at the moment. Much to the detriment of the game.

They don’t know when VAR should and shouldn’t get involved. They don’t seem to understand what to classify as handball. Poor at identifying SFP. Ignore obvious dissent.

Is this to please the higher ups?

Rightly or wrongly, and I think wrongly, PGMOL is funded partly by the EPL and EFL, and in any business if you are a shareholder you have a right to offer your opinion on how it is run. Graham Scott talks about it in the interview he did on talkSPORT last week (well worth a listen if you haven't heard it) where he said the PGMOL officials were constantly being given different directives based on what their bosses wanted that week.

So yes, it is to please the "higher ups" as if you are given directives as an employee you are expected to follow them. That isn't just a refereeing or football thing, I've been in paid employment for over 30 years and there have been many cases of managers telling me to do things that I don't agree with, but if you want to keep your job you have to toe the line. The answer is to move all referees back under the FA and abolish PGMOL, but we all know that won't happen.

 

[Runner Ref]

Rightly or wrongly, and I think wrongly, PGMOL is funded partly by the EPL and EFL, and in any business if you are a shareholder you have a right to offer your opinion on how it is run. Graham Scott talks about it in the interview he did on talkSPORT last week (well worth a listen if you haven't heard it) where he said the PGMOL officials were constantly being given different directives based on what their bosses wanted that week.

So yes, it is to please the "higher ups" as if you are given directives as an employee you are expected to follow them. That isn't just a refereeing or football thing, I've been in paid employment for over 30 years and there have been many cases of managers telling me to do things that I don't agree with, but if you want to keep your job you have to toe the line. The answer is to move all referees back under the FA and abolish PGMOL, but we all know that won't happen.

So clubs can influence referees to ignore clear dissent? What a load of old tosh.

If 10 clubs say they want one thing and 10 clubs say another, what happens then? Who exactly benefits from officials ignoring law? I’m sure Arsenal would have appreciated the Newcastle player being sent off, and rightly so.

 

[RefereeX]

So clubs can influence referees to ignore clear dissent? What a load of old tosh.

If 10 clubs say they want one thing and 10 clubs say another, what happens then? Who exactly benefits from officials ignoring law? I’m sure Arsenal would have appreciated the Newcastle player being sent off, and rightly so.

Have you seen much of the wider footballing supporting public saying it's outrageous that he wasn't sent off?
I certainly haven't...

We've had this discussion over and over. I know you don't agree, and that's fine, but it's not the individual referees fault if he's given guidance by his employers. And I very much doubt the guidance is as basic as 'ignore obvious dissent'.