Consistency of tolerance in EPL

[Runner Ref]

Have you seen much of the wider footballing supporting public saying it's outrageous that he wasn't sent off?
I certainly haven't...

We've had this discussion over and over. I know you don't agree, and that's fine, but it's not the individual referees fault if he's given guidance by his employers. And I very much doubt the guidance is as basic as 'ignore obvious dissent'.

It’s fine. Yourself & Rusty are correct as usual. Ignoring law is wholly acceptable and correct, and those on here will justify it when it it suits.

I have to be careful with what I say. Otherwise the mods will get their knickers in a twist and ban me again.

 

[RefereeX]

It’s fine. Yourself & Rusty are correct as usual. Ignoring law is wholly acceptable and correct, and those on here will justify it when it it suits.

I have to be careful with what I say. Otherwise the mods will get their knickers in a twist and ban me again.

I believe I'm actually quite quick to admit when I'm not correct or to accept that 2 people can have different opinions without a 'correct' and an 'incorrect'. If certain other members could do the same we might not lose so many threads to circular arguments. Either way, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at?

I don't understand what you're disagreeing with though?

Are you suggesting referees aren't asked to deal with things like a player sarcastically clapping when on a caution in other ways if possible and we're wrong there?
Are you suggesting that even if they are asking them this the individual should ignore it for the benefit of grass roots football, even though they would probably like to progress their career?
Or what are we wrong about? Because I've said if you don't agree with this advice and think it should be dealt with, you're well entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not the individual referees fault. My coach advises me to do certain things that you would disagree with on the same basis. But if it helps me progress, I'm going to be doing it.

Also, you didn't respond as to whether you've seen many of the wider footballing audience outraged that he wasn't sent off... the only people I've personally seen talking about it are referees.

 

[Runner Ref]

Are you suggesting referees aren't asked to deal with things like a player sarcastically clapping when on a caution in other ways if possible and we're wrong there?
Are you suggesting that even if they are asking them this the individual should ignore it for the benefit of grass roots football, even though they would probably like to progress their career?

Show me evidence of this. I'd love to see the part in which you're asked to ignore clear as day dissent. I'd also love to see the bit in which following law would slow down a referees career- would Howard Webb come out and say this? Not once in my refereeing career at any level was I given such advice. Maybe its a new thing- this would suggest why standards are tanking at the moment. They need to get back to basics and just referee.

Also, you didn't respond as to whether you've seen many of the wider footballing audience outraged that he wasn't sent off... the only people I've personally seen talking about it are referees.

As soon as it happened, my phone went mental with people messaging me about it. I don't have X, Facebook, Instagram etc, so I don't see anything that is or isn't on there. Closest I get to that is forums, and there are plenty of people on those who mention it. But are we saying referees should only deal with matters in which fans will be outraged?

Either way, this is the last post I'm going to make on this thread. It's the usual suspects doing their mental gymnastics to try and defend the indefensible. And sadly, those are the people on here who hold the power. So we have to stand in line with those individuals (not just my thoughts, the thoughts of more than you'd think)

 

[RefereeX]

Show me evidence of this. I'd love to see the part in which you're asked to ignore clear as day dissent. I'd also love to see the bit in which following law would slow down a referees career- would Howard Webb come out and say this? Not once in my refereeing career at any level was I given such advice. Maybe its a new thing- this would suggest why standards are tanking at the moment. They need to get back to basics and just referee.


As soon as it happened, my phone went mental with people messaging me about it. I don't have X, Facebook, Instagram etc, so I don't see anything that is or isn't on there. Closest I get to that is forums, and there are plenty of people on those who mention it. But are we saying referees should only deal with matters in which fans will be outraged?

Either way, this is the last post I'm going to make on this thread. It's the usual suspects doing their mental gymnastics to try and defend the indefensible. And sadly, those are the people on here who hold the power. So we have to stand in line with those individuals (not just my thoughts, the thoughts of more than you'd think)

So you're saying you think we're wrong and this is purely an issue with Jarred Gillet's application of law? And all the other times it's happened it's purely on the individuals application of law also....
Nobody said 'ignore clear as day dissent'. Not everything is binary...
But if you think that, then that's fine and I doubt I'll change your mind.

You talk about the usual suspects doing mental gymnastics to try and defend the indefensible, but there are also usual suspects who come to this section of the forum to do nothing but complain about the performances of referees. I see comfortably more occasions of one of your 'usual suspects' disagreeing with a decision than I do one of the usual criticisers complementing an official...

I personally saw loads of people bemoaning the penalty overturn (which I think was incorrect) but I genuinely haven't seen people other than a referees group chat talking about this. Funnily enough, it was the grass roots referees in that chat saying it should have been a second caution. Of course we shouldn't only deal with matters in which fans will be outraged, but it's a pretty good indicator that if people aren't talking about it, it probably wasn't that bad / obvious. If your (non referee) friends are talking about it, then fine, I was just saying, mine aren't... (and one of those is an Arsenal fan who messages me about every decision that goes against them).

To suggest 'standards are tanking' is unsubstantiated in my opinion, but that's a separate issue.

I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you either, because we can have a different opinion and that's fine, it doesn't need to result in bad blood, bans or anything else...

 

[one]

Not for one minute I think this should have been ignored. But we are not in an ideal world and I am not naive.

Here is the issue, no football body is going to come out explicitly and say not to caution dissent. But it's how they deal with it (and the referee) afterwards that makes the difference. I know this with no doubt, if JG was the type of referee who would give a caution in these situation then he would not be refereeing this game in the first place. It would have been some others referee who would have ignored it. In fact no referee would make it much past grassroots level refereeing anywhere if they cautioned that on a consisten basis.

Don't blame the referee here. Its how the system works.

 

[RustyRef]

So clubs can influence referees to ignore clear dissent? What a load of old tosh.

If 10 clubs say they want one thing and 10 clubs say another, what happens then? Who exactly benefits from officials ignoring law? I’m sure Arsenal would have appreciated the Newcastle player being sent off, and rightly so.

Didn't say I agree with it, but we know it happens. Howard Webb has repeatedly said they take feedback from stakeholders and that models their guidance to referees, and there is no bigger stakeholder in the Premier League than the clubs.

It is a knock on effect, Webb is employed by PGMOL which is part funded by the EPL so he can't just ignore what they say. The referees are effectively employed by Webb so they can't ignore what he tells them to do. I've already said what the answer is, scrap PGMOL and move all referees under the FA. That said, the FA have already shown they can't regulate the game properly, after all if they could there wouldn't be any need for an independent regulator.

But I don't think they are told to just ignore dissent, they can't be as there have been 17 dissent cautions so far this season, if they were told to ignore it that number would clearly be zero.