RefSix

Coin toss !!

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#21
This is what I do (and have done for several years). It's also what a large number of higher level referees seem to do here. I have a couple of coins that have a darker side and a lighter side. They go to the team in dark or the team in light (respectively).


I'm not sure how this is premeditated in any way whatsoever and it doesn't take away any of the chance. The coin will still come up randomly and is not (in any way) affected by the choice by a player vs the referee.

I also think that the comment about a personality disorder is utterly inappropriate and unwarranted.


Justify then match control in the form of the coin toss? megalomaniac is the only term I can think of. It reeks of superiority, am all powerful, only I can do the coin toss. Its my entitled opinion that someone who would approach refereeing like this is doing it to compensate for inadequacies in another form of their life.
Am allowed that viewpoint, esp as I have explained why I feel that way.

What is the response going to be when you say, blue you are heads, red you are tails, and blue (away for arguements sake) says.."I always call tails" or words to that effect? Are you really going to say "sorry but today am deciding who is who !!!!! " Lets hope your recognition of foul play is equal to your almighty ego

I know folk and am sure other folk will know folk who referee because of the power aspect, some guys are brutally honest about that, some try to hide it, does not mean they are bad referees, just means, they are using officiating as a means to cover up/replace another aspect of their lives where maybe they are not so powerful.
 
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Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#23
If you're telling each captain which side of the coin that they're on then the captains are actually playing no part in the procedure. That being the case, there's no point in tossing a coin at all (aside from for show because that's what the LOTG require). Why would anyone want to take control over the toss of a coin?
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#24
Home side heads, away team tails for me, always has been, always will be.

It was actually recommended by one of the tutors when I did my course.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#25
Justify then match control in the form of the coin toss? megalomaniac is the only term I can think of. It reeks of superiority, am all powerful, only I can do the coin toss. Its my entitled opinion that someone who would approach refereeing like this is doing it to compensate for inadequacies in another form of their life.
Am allowed that viewpoint, esp as I have explained why I feel that way.

What is the response going to be when you say, blue you are heads, red you are tails, and blue (away for arguements sake) says.."I always call tails" or words to that effect? Are you really going to say "sorry but today am deciding who is who !!!!! " Lets hope your recognition of foul play is equal to your almighty ego

I know folk and am sure other folk will know folk who referee because of the power aspect, some guys are brutally honest about that, some try to hide it, does not mean they are bad referees, just means, they are using officiating as a means to cover up/replace another aspect of their lives where maybe they are not so powerful.
It's a quantum leap of unfathomable proportions to go from heads or tails methodology to 'personality disorder' :redcard:
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#26
Justify then match control in the form of the coin toss? megalomaniac is the only term I can think of. It reeks of superiority, am all powerful, only I can do the coin toss. Its my entitled opinion that someone who would approach refereeing like this is doing it to compensate for inadequacies in another form of their life.
Am allowed that viewpoint, esp as I have explained why I feel that way.

What is the response going to be when you say, blue you are heads, red you are tails, and blue (away for arguements sake) says.."I always call tails" or words to that effect? Are you really going to say "sorry but today am deciding who is who !!!!! " Lets hope your recognition of foul play is equal to your almighty ego

I know folk and am sure other folk will know folk who referee because of the power aspect, some guys are brutally honest about that, some try to hide it, does not mean they are bad referees, just means, they are using officiating as a means to cover up/replace another aspect of their lives where maybe they are not so powerful.
Huge overreaction
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#28
Recommended for what reason? I'm open to justifiable logic but I just csnt see any
Can't remember to be honest, but there is not justifiable reason I can think of not to do it.

Each team still has a 50/50 chance of winning the toss and thus having the choice of which end to attack first
 

one

RefChat Addict
#29
If you're telling each captain which side of the coin that they're on then the captains are actually playing no part in the procedure. That being the case, there's no point in tossing a coin at all (aside from for show because that's what the LOTG require). Why would anyone want to take control over the toss of a coin?
Lotg requirement is the reason you do a lot of things and you don't abandon them because there is no reason for it. Team kicking off has to do so from the middle of CC. They can't do it like a goal kick if they wanted to. Why not?
Why is the throw in procedure the way it is? Why two hands? Why above the head?....
There is no legitimate reason to ask the away team to call the toss either. Yet it's acceptable an no one argues about it.
No one gives a toss who calls the coin toss :) just flip the bloody thing and let's get on with play :D that's what the players want to do.
In all my years I have never seen or heard of any player complaining about the coin toss.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#30
Lotg requirement is the reason you do a lot of things and you don't abandon them because there is no reason for it. Team kicking off has to do so from the middle of CC. They can't do it like a goal kick if they wanted to. Why not?
Why is the throw in procedure the way it is? Why two hands? Why above the head?....
There is no legitimate reason to ask the away team to call the toss either. Yet it's acceptable an no one argues about it.
No one gives a toss who calls the coin toss :) just flip the bloody thing and let's get on with play :D that's what the players want to do.
In all my years I have never seen or heard of any player complaining about the coin toss.
I'm not advocating abandoning the LOTG. It's the requirement to control the coin toss that I find unneccessary and odd that anyone would want to? I completely agree with flipping the thing and getting on with the game, why do anything other than that? Throw in procedures and taking the kick off from the CC are technical requirements, deciding to control the coin toss is not. Tossing the coin requires no management whatsoever,why would anyone introduce management into the most basic task, one which has never caused an issue? What is the point?

Like you said, just flip the thing and let the players call. After all.........That's what football expects
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#31
I'm not advocating abandoning the LOTG. It's the requirement to control the coin toss that I find unneccessary and odd that anyone would want to? I completely agree with flipping the thing and getting on with the game, why do anything other than that? Throw in procedures and taking the kick off from the CC are technical requirements, deciding to control the coin toss is not. Tossing the coin requires no management whatsoever,why would anyone introduce management into the most basic task, one which has never caused an issue? What is the point?

Like you said, just flip the thing and let the players call. After all.........That's what football expects
Is it what football expects?

If you tell the home captain to call then you are managing the coin toss

If you tell the away captain to call then you are managing the coin toss

If you tell them to call in the air you are managing the coin toss.

If you tell either captain to toss the coin you are managing the coin toss.

I've worked with referees who done lots of different things, some do what I do, some toss the coin catch it and get one of the captain's to call.

Some get one captain to toss the coin and get the other to call it.

It's horses for courses and no one method is better than another.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#32
I'm not advocating abandoning the LOTG. It's the requirement to control the coin toss that I find unneccessary and odd that anyone would want to? I completely agree with flipping the thing and getting on with the game, why do anything other than that? Throw in procedures and taking the kick off from the CC are technical requirements, deciding to control the coin toss is not. Tossing the coin requires no management whatsoever,why would anyone introduce management into the most basic task, one which has never caused an issue? What is the point?

Like you said, just flip the thing and let the players call. After all.........That's what football expects
I think you missed one of my points. Letting/asking a player to call it is not a lotg requirement either. But why do you do it?
Isn't it unfair to get only one side call a coin toss?

Both those question were rhetorical BTW.

The point is someone has to call it, you use the away captn, I use home, Tom uses the nearest player, Dick uses a ball boy and Harry calls it himself. They are all perfectly fine.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#33
Nothing wrong with it if that's what floats your boat? I can't understand why anyone would take the job of calling away from the players to do it themselves. I agree with the previous post regarding the need to control that situation? The need to take away the involvement of the players to do it all themselves over the most inconsequential act? Where does that come from?
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#34
Is it what football expects?

If you tell the home captain to call then you are managing the coin toss

If you tell the away captain to call then you are managing the coin toss

If you tell them to call in the air you are managing the coin toss.

If you tell either captain to toss the coin you are managing the coin toss.

I've worked with referees who done lots of different things, some do what I do, some toss the coin catch it and get one of the captain's to call.

Some get one captain to toss the coin and get the other to call it.

It's horses for courses and no one method is better than another.
I could not have been less serious about WFE. It's just a coin toss. It's the reasoning behind taking away the players involvement in it I don't get? I don't care about it as it's so unimportant, I just don't get the need to remove the captains participation in it? Who thinks like that and why?
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#35
I could not have been less serious about WFE. It's just a coin toss. It's the reasoning behind taking away the players involvement in it I don't get? I don't care about it as it's so unimportant, I just don't get the need to remove the captains participation in it? Who thinks like that and why?
So unimportant that you keep banging on about it!;)
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#40
Nobody has yet answered what to do when the captain says, I always call tails
You are seriously going to say, not today you dont??

And does this notion of referee calling the coin continue when it becomes kftpm?

As with most things each to own but I stand by my comments removing the human interaction between getting the captains negates their role on this process for no benefit at all.

I can even guess where the instructing captains who is who comes from, somebody once went on a forgein trip and amazingly there were langauge barriers so rather than try to break them down, someone pointed "you heads you tails"
 
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