Card Count

[Ciley Myrus]

i read it as, the defender was 20 yards back , thus playing everybody on?

Observer sitting behind goal has no chance of determining an offside anyway, so that's his credibility shot for starters.

 

[JamesL]

i read it as, the defender was 20 yards back , thus playing everybody on?

Observer sitting behind goal has no chance of determining an offside anyway, so that's his credibility shot for starters.

That makes perfect sense. I read it the other way for some reason.
So the AR would be level with that player as the second rear most defender. Not sure what this guys problem was really.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

That makes perfect sense. I read it the other way for some reason.
So the AR would be level with that player as the second rear most defender. Not sure what this guys problem was really.

There is one senior ground in Scotland where the observer gets planted at the corner flag, as this is the main VIP seating area, and there is no stand along the touchline at dug outs, whilst there is a stand along the other touchline, its not used
Which means the AR at tech areas has to really really mess up to be given a hard time as the observer has no chance!!

 

[Kes]

He wouldn't have it afterwards though so I just said nothing and listened to the nonsense. The observer must've been 80 and was sat behind the goal for some of the game on a deck chair.

This aspect of it is what boils my pi55 sometimes.

Some old fart who thinks it's all about him and his opinion. If I ever got observed by an old codger like that I wouldn't give a monkey's about my report or mark - I'd tell him where to get off. Thankfully, all the observations I've ever had have been undertaken by fellow professionals who were around the same age as me, and still actively refereeing themselves.

When I offered myself up as an Observer for my county FA not so long back, I was told "That's great thank you, having you on the books will bring the average age of our Observer cohort down by about 10 years!!" ( I'm 52!!).

 

[Sheffields Finest]

This aspect of it is what boils my pi55 sometimes.

Some old fart who thinks it's all about him and his opinion. If I ever got observed by an old codger like that I wouldn't give a monkey's about my report or mark - I'd tell him where to get off. Thankfully, all the observations I've ever had have been undertaken by fellow professionals who were around the same age as me, and still actively refereeing themselves.

When I offered myself up as an Observer for my county FA not so long back, I was told "That's great thank you, having you on the books will bring the average age of our Observer cohort down by about 10 years!!" ( I'm 52!!).

That’s where @Mintyref went, we were looking for him everywhere... Not sure what’s p1ssing you off more, a bad observation or he’d nicked your deck chair?

 

[Ben448844]

Just an isolated example but it was a really poor experience (and my first with an observer). 2nd experience really positive

 

[RobOda]

But in some cases I've seen observers say things like not a lot to go on with disciplinary as nothing out there to let me judge you on.

That used to be the case quite often back before they changed how the system works in my area.

I used to dread the reports of how "the game was played in good spirits and there wasn't much for you to do..." as it would usually end with a rather flat mark. I think now, you actively have to make a mistake/error to go below a passing mark at least at the lower refereeing grades.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

i read it as, the defender was 20 yards back , thus playing everybody on?

Observer sitting behind goal has no chance of determining an offside anyway, so that's his credibility shot for starters.

Ah, actually that would make the AR 20 yards out of positon

 

[Ben448844]

Ah, actually that would make the AR 20 yards out of positon

Yup. He's started jogging our with the defensive line and then went down as my eyes went towards the ball which was near the touchline. Looked back and I am along way out of position.

I had just finished a long playing career and was in the first few weeks of my officiating career. Mistakes are rather likely

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I get that, but I was cursing the observer and in reality he might have had a point.

 

[Ben448844]

I get that, but I was cursing the observer and in reality he might have had a point.

If he commented on my positioning he certainly would have! I got back into a relative position from memory but he would certainly had grounds to pick my game to pieces. Either that incident or indeed anything that I was doing. As I've stated on here a few times, I was unable to get games when I first qualified and was doing games as an AR before I'd done a middle.

But I'm afraid that the gaff from myself was not the course of the derision of the observer. The most worrying thing was the tone of the criticism towards the referee. It was firm to say the least and unwarranted. He was a very good referee and the cards he gave were easy ones.

 

[Mintyref]

Some of that is that there is an expectation for their to be at least one devlopment point.
We know that you have an axe to grind against the system but you offer no solutions to fix it. There basically is no other way, presently.
Like in any proffession, you'll come across people doing the same job with some doing it better than others. However, it should at least even itself out over the course of a season between good ane bad observations.

It is easily fixed.....set some standards and monitor that assessors perform to them...duh!

 

[RustyRef]

There is one senior ground in Scotland where the observer gets planted at the corner flag, as this is the main VIP seating area, and there is no stand along the touchline at dug outs, whilst there is a stand along the other touchline, its not used
Which means the AR at tech areas has to really really mess up to be given a hard time as the observer has no chance!!

If I was observing there I'd go and stand somewhere better. There's a supply league ground here where the only seats are behind the goal and you can't observe a referee from there or behind the corner flag.

 

[RustyRef]

It is easily fixed.....set some standards and monitor that assessors perform to them...duh!

All observers operating at level 4 and above are regularly trained and monitored. If their reports get moderated for a third time they are booted from the list.

That doesn't apply at levels 7-5 but I suspect it will in the not too distant future.

 

[Mintyref]

All observers operating at level 4 and above are regularly trained and monitored. If their reports get moderated for a third time they are booted from the list.

That doesn't apply at levels 7-5 but I suspect it will in the not too distant future.

Good, about time, but it was always really an issue at the lower levels

 

[RustyRef]

Even if I watch a near perfect performance I will always try and find some kind of development advice, there is almost always something that could be done better even if it is minor.

At level 4 and above the competencies for AOL are weighted towards the disciplinary side of the game. 7 out of the 10 competencies relate to cautions or red cards, so if there aren't any it becomes a bit difficult for the observer and they have to get a bit creative. To give a mark of 7 there must be development advice, and to give 7.5 they must meet 4 of the competencies. For reference they are ...

Appropriate disciplinary sanctions.

Correctness, consistency and predictability in issuing cards; clear line from the beginning (not issuing cards too early for minor
offences). Issuing of disciplinary action to be in line with approved procedure: name, reason for caution / dismissal then card, unless
the early issuing of a red card is able to prevent a situation escalating.

Correct judgement and interpretation for denying obvious goal-scoring opportunities Red Card

Correct judgement and interpretation for stopping a promising attack. Yellow Card Offence

Correct management of the goal keeper behaviour.

Disciplinary punishment (yellow card) for unsporting behaviour as outlined in the LOTG

Red card for tackles which endanger the safety of an opponent and for serious foul play and/or violent conduct

Appropriate management of the Technical Areas personnel and action against derogatory gestures, dismissive waves and ironic clapping from coaches

Persistent offenders dealt with appropriately – Effective use of the stepped approach

Correct judgement and interpretation of all other Laws that have a significant impact on the game

 

[RustyRef]

Good, about time, but it was always really an issue at the lower levels

It was also a major problem at level 4 when I came through. Lots of very old observers who hadn't held a whistle for decades, and a lot of those have now gone. Those that remain now have to attend training to make sure they observe to current standards not to how it was done in their days.

The requirement that you can only observe to the highest level you officiated has also now been scrapped. Being a good referee doesn't necessarily make you a good observer, and previously the best observers were often held back as they didn't make it as a referee.

 

[GraemeS]

1, Remove Club marks, that's a p1**take....
2, Stop hiding young wannabe starlets in easier games.
3, Impose a levy on the cesspit of PL money in paying referees, assessors etc a decent screw and not make it almost a voluntary 'job', lets get the best not just the gullible and available!!!

1. That's not a solution, that's just slating the current system. Propose something better, or accept that club marks are bad, but better than nothing.
2. I think that's a myth - leagues appoint referees, and I don't see how it's in their interests to never try a young ref on a difficult match? And even if it isn't a myth, it might get them from 7 to 5 quickly, but they'll be found out as soon as they get to a level where different ranks make much of a difference.
3. Absolutely with you on this one, but we all know it's never going to happen...

 

[Ciley Myrus]

If I was observing there I'd go and stand somewhere better. There's a supply league ground here where the only seats are behind the goal and you can't observe a referee from there or behind the corner flag.

Its either behind either goal, or, this corner flag. There is no stand at one end, and the touchline with a stand is not used!!
Raith Rovers...if anyone is bored enough to take a look

It certainly did me a favour years back, a goalie maybe in, maybe out box from a through ball....observer "in no position to tell so has to go with the AR"..
phew!

Observer goes kinda, under that white triangle that says RRFC on it....he cant even go much further left when seated to get a better view on AR1...

 

[Scotty Ref]

After this afternoons match, I now stand at 30 games this season, 71 yellows and 9 reds.