CAR’s

[DeanoMT10]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I’ve searched but not found a substantive answer.

Game yesterday and this isn’t my first experience of it.
Club assistants/players/coaches/helpers running the lines for me.

On several occasions now over a few games I’ve had a lot players shouting against decisions.
Flag will go up for offside and multiple players shout he cannot be offside after I’ve blown.

Balls for throw ins. Ball goes well out of play (apparently) and AR keeps his flag down.

At my level there is no luxury of officiated AR’s - so what do you guys and girls do when you encounter this?

I try my hardest to maintain the best vision of the line that I can, but as we all know you can’t be everywhere so you rely on people being honest to flag when the ball is in or out of play or when an offside is genuine.

 

[FinalWhistle]

At my level there is no luxury of officiated AR’s

Sorry, I don't have an answer for you, but I do have an observation: in some ways, the higher level reffing where they have VAR I would say is easier, since you have technology to help you out and you don't have to rely on people's honesty about situations. There is of course, lots of pressure due to the consequences of decisions in these high profile games, but that's a related, but different issue.

Let's face it, people want to win the game and are very passionate about it, so asking them to be non-partisan about it isn't really gonna work. Also, spotting a marginal offside, or other fleeting situation that happens in the blink of an eye that nobody saw properly, inevitably leads to incorrect decisions, which is why VAR (done correctly!) is such an invaluable tool. Similarly with goal line technology.

Finally, I hope some of the refs on here can help you out.

 

[george.g]

Hi! Good points above about passion, and if something is a close decision, there will always be protests.

The best you can do it outline to captains at KO that CARs are part of your officiating team, and mandate they are equally respected.

If a player decides to have a pop at your CAR, initiate the stepped approach, and eventually build up to a sanction by SinBin/Sending Off.

Also, depending on your county, some CARs may not be expected to call offside (most often NW England), so that might have some bearing!

Finally, try and build good proximity with your AR, so you can take the decision if needed in certain situations. Have trust in your CAR, until they prove to you that they are otherwise unreliable. Work to take up good positions where you can see the touchline for example, and you might have a better view of some incidents than your CAR.

People will get stuff wrong, so will you. That is also a key part of the game, at any level.

 

[Viridis1886]

I make it part of my briefing to CARs.

"If you are up with play and in a credible position I will take your decision. If you're not then I may take the call myself, please don't be offended.

I'll trust you completely unless you give me reason not to. Thanks in advance for your help, it much appreciated"

 

[santa sangria]

Is the UK the only place using CARs?

I just watched one of those YouTube Sunday league team’s videos and it was carnage - because of the CARs. Surely it is better without them. I’m telling you, from what I can see, and from refereeing 300 grassroots mens matches alone, it’s much better without them.

And, in the LotG, where is the justification for this? The book is quite clear on the differences between players, substitutes and officials!

 

[wazztie16]

Is the UK the only place using CARs?

I just watched one of those YouTube Sunday league team’s videos and it was carnage - because of the CARs. Surely it is better without them. I’m telling you, from what I can see, and from refereeing 300 grassroots mens matches alone, it’s much better without them.

And, in the LotG, where is the justification for this? The book is quite clear on the differences between players, substitutes and officials!

I find that being clear to the car's what you want/expect from them, bringing them in at the same time as the captains at the coin toss so there's no confusion, goes a long way. If they signal for fouls, when you've told them not to, you have the ammunition to deal with them as you need to.

I can't think of a game I've ever done that has been carnage/chaos etc, with car's.

I did 4 seasons of middles with car's for most of my games. Very rarely had an issue because of the above.

(My spiel, fwiw, is ball in and out of play, offside - later flag better, wait till they touch the ball or get really close unless it's a 1v1 in which case bang it straight up and we'll stop IF YOU'RE CORRECT IN LAW, to prevent a collision with the keeper, I'll do fouls so don't worry about them and I'll try and give you the decision in your credible area (down the wing), but if i feel it's taken a touch you haven't seen, we may end up swapping the decision, I don't think you're cheating, it's just that I've seen something you haven't.

Honestly, can't recall ever having to swap an AR (unless they're not keeping up with play), or not being able to sell a decision when I've overruled them.

Being assertive, talking the talk and being confident goes a long way in this game.

 

[FirsFox40]

Is the UK the only place using CARs?

I just watched one of those YouTube Sunday league team’s videos and it was carnage - because of the CARs. Surely it is better without them. I’m telling you, from what I can see, and from refereeing 300 grassroots mens matches alone, it’s much better without them.

And, in the LotG, where is the justification for this? The book is quite clear on the differences between players, substitutes and officials!

It would be better without these YouTube Sunday league teams, yes.

 

[DeanoMT10]

Thanks all.
Most helpful.

 

[RustyRef]

Is the UK the only place using CARs?

I just watched one of those YouTube Sunday league team’s videos and it was carnage - because of the CARs. Surely it is better without them. I’m telling you, from what I can see, and from refereeing 300 grassroots mens matches alone, it’s much better without them.

And, in the LotG, where is the justification for this? The book is quite clear on the differences between players, substitutes and officials!

I think so, not aware of anyone using them outside of the UK. I was at a fairly senior game in Scotland (6th tier I think) last year with club assistants, although they could only indicate ball out of play, not offsides. At the end of the day they are a means to an end, there aren't anywhere near enough referees in the UK to cover every game with 3 officials, so appointing 3 officials to more games would mean even more games going with no referee at all.

The key to successfully using CARs is to set expectations before each game. Get them into the toss with the captains and explain that if you are more credibly placed than them you will make the decision, and make it clear they are not to indicate free kicks, foul throws, etc, their remit is ball out of play and offsides (if allowed in your area) only. Someone overruled after being told they might be overruled is far more likely to accept it than someone who hasn't been told. And having told them with the captains present the teams are more likely to accept the decisions.

Not saying they are perfect, as they clearly aren't, but they are generally OK if managed correctly and efficiently.

 

[JamesL]

Agree that expectation setting is really important.

1 thing I add in to captains is to play to the whistle and not the flag, having explained 1 of 3 things that will happen when the flag is raised.
1) offside. Play stops. Idfk.
2) wrong in law, play will continue.
3) it is extremely unclear why the flag is raised. Will see play to a neutral ball out of play and will clarify then or defence clearly regain control and the game will continue

 

[george.g]

Get them in with captains? Never heard that before.

Before KO it’s a very simple, “ins and outs, same as every weeks. Cheers mate.”

Never had an issue

 

[JamesL]

Get them in with captains? Never heard that before.

Before KO it’s a very simple, “ins and outs, same as every weeks. Cheers mate.”

Never had an issue

That will be regional. Was always the same for me in North West but it's different here when they are doing offsides.

 

[george.g]

That will be regional. Was always the same for me in North West but it's different here when they are doing offsides.

Yep, I’m aware it’s pretty much solely NW!

Live right on the border of the north of Cheshire, which was your old hunting grounds, so very similar

 

[socal lurker]

In the US CARs aren’t regularly used in most places. When used they are only supposed to advise the R when the ball is over the line—not even which direction. So while they often roam the touchline, they can just as easily stand at the corner where they can look down both lines.

 

[DJIC]

I find that being clear to the car's what you want/expect from them, bringing them in at the same time as the captains at the coin toss so there's no confusion, goes a long way. If they signal for fouls, when you've told them not to, you have the ammunition to deal with them as you need to.

I can't think of a game I've ever done that has been carnage/chaos etc, with car's.

I did 4 seasons of middles with car's for most of my games. Very rarely had an issue because of the above.

(My spiel, fwiw, is ball in and out of play, offside - later flag better, wait till they touch the ball or get really close unless it's a 1v1 in which case bang it straight up and we'll stop IF YOU'RE CORRECT IN LAW, to prevent a collision with the keeper, I'll do fouls so don't worry about them and I'll try and give you the decision in your credible area (down the wing), but if i feel it's taken a touch you haven't seen, we may end up swapping the decision, I don't think you're cheating, it's just that I've seen something you haven't.

Honestly, can't recall ever having to swap an AR (unless they're not keeping up with play), or not being able to sell a decision when I've overruled them.

Being assertive, talking the talk and being confident goes a long way in this game.

Likewise in multiple seasons, never had an issue with CARs, what I find is each CAR will be as bad or as good as each other. Often we get one or two offsides a half, teams are not fit enough to play a high line!

The issue can come when a goal is scored, defenders scream at CAR who then puts their flag up, easy to spot & deal with/ignore.

I would much prefer CARs than no help, I will give 95% of offsides called by CARs, easy to sell than overuling which then leads to a goal.

Unless I have witnessed first hand, close on 'cheating' or just not in line & responds to defender shouts, from an AR, then I go with them.

I give one instruction, for offside flag late when player touches the ball or is touching distance of defender, I'll do all the fouls, thanks for volunteering.

Anymore is lost anyway.

 

[WiisardNic]

Is the UK the only place using CARs?

We use them in Australia as well - what level depends on where you are in the state as well.

In a league setting where I am:

• National Premier League (regional league underneath but not connected to the A-League) do not use CARs
• 2nd division of the territory - 1x CAR (generally from the home team)
• Anything below that (including the U18s and below for the above two divisions) - if there's availability to have 1x NAR with the on-field referee, they do, but generally there isn't (As they try to spread across the games in the city so that there's an 'official' at as many games as possible. Usually, if there is an AR assigned for these games, it's a new referee and they've been given that game to help ease them in.

In saying that, where I grew up was much, much more rural (2 teams from that area actually play in the two top tiers where I live now), and generally it was only first-grade mens that was afforded the full suite of officials. A day in the league would generally be: U18 > Women's First Grade > Men's Reserve Grade > Men's First Grade, with an extra referee showing up at different points of the day (1 for the U18 and Women's usually, second for reserves, and then the third for first-grade). When the NPL or 2nd division go to these towns for a league match, they use the local referees, so at least when in the 2nd division (where locally we only get the 1 NAR) these games have the full suite.

 

[Martiju]

That will be regional. Was always the same for me in North West but it's different here when they are doing offsides.

Yes, I do it partly because it helps show everyone that they are playing a key part in the game, and partly so that (and I say this to them all) the captains know what I've said to them - both about a late/correct flag rather than a hasty wrong one, and that I can't take fouls from them.

Within the first ten minutes I generally know whether they are going to be a help to me or not...