The Ref Stop

CAR’s

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 3014
  • Start date Start date
D

Deleted member 3014

Guest
I know it’s been discussed on other threads so apologies for going over old ground but I have a situation & was wondering what you guys thought?

I ref both Saturdays & Sunday’s, it’s standard for clubs to provide the Lino’s unless they have paid the league for neutrals.

Now I’m a new referee so wouldn’t have dreamt of calling the offsides myself but in all honesty the confidence I’ve gained in 7 games has surprised me & the hassle CAR’s is causing me I’m considering ditching them altogether (need to check with league if I’m allowed), the game I had Saturday was a joke & I actually started to over rule both Lino’s towards the end.


If i ditch the CAR’s & i call the offsides and get it wrong or the players disagree with me then I’m heeping a load of pressure on myself & being a new ref I’m just gaining confidence so don’t want to take a backwards step with my confidence levels.

I can’t win whatever I do, it’s nice to have Lino’s & nice to use them as a scapegoat if everyone is in uproar with the offside call, I just say I’m going with the Lino’s call but Saturday was the worst yet both Lino’s flagged for every single attack to the point it was getting silly, so I started to over rule them & was close to dropping them both altogether.

Referees & there assistants come as a team they have each other’s back & work in sync with each other, but at amateur level it’s not the case the two people the ref should be relying on & backing is actually causing more hassle than what it’s worth.

The only approach I think I can take is start with them & if they are flagging every attack & I disagree with there calls them I’ll ask both to drop there flags.

Any advice?
 
The Ref Stop
Look at the league handbook? It should say in there about the role of CAR's.

Personally, I only use them for ball in and out of play and that's it - which is my league's rules anyway. I call the offside myself, and I've made it clear to clubs before hand that it is my call, I won't see them all and so I'm only giving those I'm 100% sure on. Ergo, play to the whistle. Any dissent about it, yellow card.

As you've found out yourself, some CARs are just either unprofessional, or blatantly cheat. It just isn't worth the aggro to deal with them, especially if you get a stand up CAR on one side and a corrupt one on the other side. If decisions are mine to make, then I can own it, even if I screw up, and I have the cards available to manage dissent.

I've found most players are content with how it is when I've explained how it will be. There's still the odd few that refuse to play to the whistle though, but that's their own problem. :P
 
Check league rules, my leagues will fine clubs who don’t supply CARs, though they don’t say what the referee should ask them to give.

Also, bare in mind what is the convention in your area. If all the other refs in the league use CARs, and use they for everything then deciding to do without could cause more problems than an incorrect offside call.

What sort of issues are CARs causing you, and what do you brief them before the game?

Personally I bring the CARs in and brief them before the coin toss with the captains present.

I also keep it short and sweet, introduce myself, hand over the flags, tell them to only give ball in and out of play and offsides, for offsides I tell them that if they aren’t sure then to wait until they are sure (it’s better to be late and right than early and wrong)

Good interaction with CARs during the game also helps, flag for offside? Blow whistle indicate then a quick shout of cheers Lino before getting on with the game.

Also, if they’ve flagged for a goal kick and you think it’s a corner then don’t be afraid to go over and have a quick chat to determine what they’ve seen. You can listen then say “from where I was it look d like it took a deflection off your number 4, so we’ll go with the corner”. (Works for other situations as well) it then makes it an obvious wiser sell to over rule them, and they’ll be less likely to feel hard done by as you’ve made the effort to speak to them.

Some CARs are useless, but it’s my experience that it’s more to do with them not really understanding what they’re supposed to do (keep in line with 2nd to last defender etc) rather than them trying to cheat
 
I never had one issue calling offsides myself! I Got 90% spot on, the other 10% I also got right because I alone made the calls! You’re never wrong, even when you know you’re may have made a mistake it was your judgment call. Next!
 
Two suggestions to help you out here

1) Tell captains that the CARs are just there to help with offsides, but that you will make the final decision, so remind them to always play to the whistle as you may well need to overrule the CAR

2) Tell the CARs, 3 things will happen when they raise the flag for offside - 95% of the time, you will blow whistle, but tell them that if you raise your hand , then you have seen something they haven't and they should then drop the flag. To get them back onside (sorry!) after that negative, tell them that if you do neither then you're happy for them to give you a small shout.

Captains won't tell their players and some CARs will ignore the advice, but at least if it goes pear shaped you have told everyone how its all going to work.

We've had the debate before and personally I have had only a handful of 'bad' CAR experiences in 15 years.
 
When I started refereeing on a league that supplied NARs, that were in general very good, I was quite surprised at how many offside decisions I was missing when reffing without them. (There were very few I would have given that were not offside.)
 
I find that CARs are generally good in Youth Football (because it's likely to be the same person volunteering each week and they make an effort), but fairly poor in Open Age
 
  • Like
Reactions: JH
Saturday just gone was the first game I’ve had where I thought this is getting silly, both sides was at it, I’m not kidding every single attack by both teams any ball played forward the flag went up!

It was freezing & I mean freezing, I ref’d my best game yet & even started to overrule the lino’s but as I’ve mentioned it then puts me in a tricky position if I give some and ignore others, but Saturday I’d just had enough.

I do prep both Lino’s with the captains before the game the same as mentioned on here, from now on though I’m gonna make it clear to all involved that if I think it’s getting out of hand & it’s blating cheating I’m gonna drop the Lino’s and do it myself, generally it’s ok (a few iffy calls from lino’s) but generally it’s ok, Saturday was one of a kind though it got silly but tbh it was that cold I wasn’t about to waste half the game chatting to captains managers and lino’s I just let them get on with it.

My biggest gripe though is a referee generally has 22 players against him at different times through out the game, the only two people that should be on his side & make his job that little bit more easy are his two lino’s, in grass roots football the referee doesn’t get that support if anything at times they make his job harder.

I guess it should be motivation for me to climb a level or two & referee at a standard where I have neutrals.
 
Unlike in Youth Footy, where the CARs are usually parents/coaches, often the CARs in Open Age are substitutes. Therefore the CARs are subject to change, multiple changes at that! If i suspect there's an integrity issue, I go over during a stoppage in play to speak to them, during which i don't make any accusations; maybe indicating they should only flag if there's clear daylight. Try to keep the CARs on side so to speak
 
Had a CAR flag offside the instant a cross was made to the back post, I could clearly see one player on and one off, the player off didn't get involved. Shouted play on, this didn't stop the whole defending side stop playing bar the goalkeeper and the CAR went berserk. Half-time he came over and called me this and that, I explained that he flagged too early and for the wrong player, he slithered away quietly muttering under his breath. Sometimes you just can't win with CARs. It's generally a relief when you glance over and the flag hasn't gone up. God forbid it's a substitute, you're there before the game explaining what you expect and 20 mins later you look and its someone completely different who doesn't know what they're doing.
 
So what's the actual problem? Specifically? How are they causing hassle, @Men in Black ?

Where I spent most of my years refereeing we didn't use CAR's at all. So if you didn't have NAR's (and you often did, even on juniors), you were by yourself. Then I moved to another area where we did use CAR's, and we used them for offside.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
So what's the actual problem? Specifically? How are they causing hassle, @Men in Black ?

Where I spent most of my years refereeing we didn't use CAR's at all. So if you didn't have NAR's (and you often did, even on juniors), you were by yourself. Then I moved to another area where we did use CAR's, and we used them for offside.
Click to expand...

Well they haven’t caused me a major issue upuntil Saturday, but Saturday both Lino’s and one in particular flagged for every long ball or through ball to the attacker, I must have given 25+ offsides some of which looked questionable to me, towards the end of the game I overruled a couple which then caused uproar from the sidelines, so the issue is I’ve got one team in my ear saying they’re cheating ref they’re flagging for everything, I’ve got to use them as part of league rules, if I go with them for sum decisions and not others then it’s chaos, if I get another set of Lino’s this wknd that flag for everything even if I think they’re onside it’s pointless having them there, I’m refereeing a fair game & they’re not.

They are supposed to be there to aid a referee, in my case Saturday they gave me more dilemmas & decisions to make that I could have done without.

I even had played say to me ref can we just drop the Lino’s?
 
Unfortunately you will get some CARs like that, though in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule.

If I think that at CAR is trying to cheat I’ll do my best to get into a credible position so that I can judge the offsides myself, but this does mean extra running, and you could find yourself out of position if you need to call something else.

A big indicator that a CAR is cheating will be that they stick their flag up whenever their team tell them to.
 
I've had CARs in all matches so far and have found them to be generally honest (maybe I'm just lucky with them) . It's usually a parent so there are varying degrees of competence and some polite guidance is often needed.

Interesting to note that some of the comments above seem to indicate that CARs run the line of the goal they're defending. Which makes it hard as they 'see' more offsides than there should be. I always have them run their forward line so the inclination is to keep the flag down I suppose. Defenders know this and are more likely to play the whistle (it doesn't stop the odd disagreement of course).

I've also had the shoe on the other foot and been a CAR for my son's team. Had one ref in the middle overrule me on an offside and felt like "WTF am I doing standing out here in the cold then if you're going to judge it from 20 yards away and from completely the wrong angle??"
 
At youth must parents club officials try and do a good job, although I was doing a semi final and had issues between players and car didn't hear what was said as I was too far away but I think the car was trying to wind up the opposition attackers. When I do the toss I bring in both captains and cars and explain what I would like them to do. All fouls and misconduct I will give. Although I sometimes have to explain this again during the match. I also talk through 4 options for offside.
1. The flag is up and I am looking at the car offside.
2. The flag goes up and I will shout loudly over ruled and they will drop their flag
3. I am following play and don't see the flag keep it up because some one will start screaming ref ref and I will look and then make a decision
4. I can also give offside.
I keep it brief and concise. If a flag goes up and a goal is scored before I have whistled I will approach the CAR and ask why he has flagged if it is not obvious and I have doubts why he has flagged.
If any one feels I can add to my options I will take advice but it seems to work for me.
I also do this for OA and if there is a change at HT repeat my instructions, although the players are normally so jarred off about not starting I don't think they listen that much!
 
zarathustra said:
Unfortunately you will get some CARs like that, though in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule.

If I think that at CAR is trying to cheat I’ll do my best to get into a credible position so that I can judge the offsides myself, but this does mean extra running, and you could find yourself out of position if you need to call something else.

A big indicator that a CAR is cheating will be that they stick their flag up whenever their team tell them to.
Click to expand...

2 times I ignore the CAR's call (unless I'm 100% sure they're right):

- They put the flag up exactly when the defenders shout for it (not straight away)
- They put the flag up well after a goal (if they didn't think it was at first glance, I'm not letting them decide it was 20 seconds later)
 
Men in Black said:
Well they haven’t caused me a major issue upuntil Saturday, but Saturday both Lino’s and one in particular flagged for every long ball or through ball to the attacker, I must have given 25+ offsides some of which looked questionable to me, towards the end of the game I overruled a couple which then caused uproar from the sidelines, so the issue is I’ve got one team in my ear saying they’re cheating ref they’re flagging for everything, I’ve got to use them as part of league rules, if I go with them for sum decisions and not others then it’s chaos, if I get another set of Lino’s this wknd that flag for everything even if I think they’re onside it’s pointless having them there, I’m refereeing a fair game & they’re not.

They are supposed to be there to aid a referee, in my case Saturday they gave me more dilemmas & decisions to make that I could have done without.

I even had played say to me ref can we just drop the Lino’s?
Click to expand...
First off, I always tell them at the start not to be offended if I overrule them, it's just because I saw it differently and I'll be the one wearing the consequences.
As to whether or not to use them for offside - just do what's normal in your area. We have them running with the attacker - that way if they are erring on the side of bias, what I overrule will be 'no flag' which is better than overruling a 'flag up' (because players stop when the flag goes up!)
As I said in my area we use them for offside. Now, in terms of positioning, I think there's 'no AR positioning' - eg ceremonial FK I'll stand on the offside line rather than front-on, and 'NAR positioning', which we all know about. With no AR's I might be more likely to be further upfield to more closely monitor an offside line, that sort of thing. You just need to weigh up the various decisions you may have to make.
With CAR's I'll adopt 'no AR positioning' for some things - such as ceremonial free kicks and corner kicks. Some decisions are too big and close to trust to them. I'll probably keep a closer eye on it in general play at first to get a measure of how they perform. If they earn my trust I'll position more and more like they're a NAR. If they're a bit questionable, then I'll know I need to keep a very, very close eye on offside up that end - change my positioning accordingly (even though it compromises other decisions), and overrule as necessary. I won't overrule unless I'm 100% certain they're wrong.

Protect your CAR's like NAR's. Accusations of cheating mean the red plastic comes out. Aside from that, handle the dissent like you otherwise would.
 
2nd String Ref said:
I've had CARs in all matches so far and have found them to be generally honest (maybe I'm just lucky with them) . It's usually a parent so there are varying degrees of competence and some polite guidance is often needed.

Interesting to note that some of the comments above seem to indicate that CARs run the line of the goal they're defending. Which makes it hard as they 'see' more offsides than there should be. I always have them run their forward line so the inclination is to keep the flag down I suppose. Defenders know this and are more likely to play the whistle (it doesn't stop the odd disagreement of course).

I've also had the shoe on the other foot and been a CAR for my son's team. Had one ref in the middle overrule me on an offside and felt like "WTF am I doing standing out here in the cold then if you're going to judge it from 20 yards away and from completely the wrong angle??"
Click to expand...
I've always had CAR's on their own LB's and honestly never thought to do it the other way. I think the logic is that if a CAR keeps his flag down and a goal is scored, the only players who will be annoyed at him is his own back line which is unlikely to escalate too far. Wheras if he's over-keen with the flag, it still requires you to blow the whistle and make the decision, which directs the attackers attention to you, but still only gives you one person to deal with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top