A&H

Argentina-Croatia

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I feel for the referees here. They have refereed the same way for at least two years in preparation for this tournament, only to then be told to be told to completely change how they apply the laws. That can't be easy, and I can only assume it is contributing to some of the problems.
 
RustyRef said:
I feel for the referees here. They have refereed the same way for at least two years in preparation for this tournament, only to then be told to be told to completely change how they apply the laws. That can't be easy, and I can only assume it is contributing to some of the problems.
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I get that we can all see the referees are operating differently, but where do we know that FIFA has told them to for sure? Has FIFA talked about it? Was it in the referee press conference?
 
DevonRef said:
Otamendi should’ve walked - day or night - VC
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I’ve never seen a player dissmised for ever so slightly kicking a ball at an opponent or throwing it at an opponent (i was guilty of both last season, booked for throwing it & nothing for kicking it whilst a player lay on the floor about the same force as Otamendi but not in the face).

I’m not saying it’s not a Red Card but I’m leaning more towards unsporting behaviour than VC I mean come on look up the word Violent in the dictionary & then look at the replay.
 
JH said:
I get that we can all see the referees are operating differently, but where do we know that FIFA has told them to for sure? Has FIFA talked about it? Was it in the referee press conference?
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Its either Fifa instructions or 34 referees have all miraculously turned a blind eye to basic laws of the game & coincidently left there cards in the changing room.

I think I’d be inclined to guess it’s down to Fifa.
 
Hoosier Ref said:
I agree CR tried to intervene quickly and the quick card is the right thing. Just thought ARs getting in the mix and splitting up players leaves no eyes on and can result in missed misconduct.

https://www.ussoccer.com/referees/resource-center/online-training.

The grade 7 module on mass confrontation is how we train. All of the grades have good training info for any who want to check it out
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Each to own and what they been taught etc. I am not sure producing cards when the brawl is still going on behind your back is my ideal though
For me, you need to wait till the brawl has finished before you start issuing cards, save maybe for a red for something horrible, which might have the opponents gunning for him
 
Men in Black said:
I’ve never seen a player dissmised for ever so slightly kicking a ball at an opponent or throwing it at an opponent (i was guilty of both last season, booked for throwing it & nothing for kicking it whilst a player lay on the floor about the same force as Otamendi but not in the face).

I’m not saying it’s not a Red Card but I’m leaning more towards unsporting behaviour than VC I mean come on look up the word Violent in the dictionary & then look at the replay.
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Its plain and simple VC MiB... You need to take your ex-player goggles off, thats pretty much as nailed on red as you can get for situations like this!!
 
Agreed. Although quickly dealing with the misconduct can diffuse the situation of the aggrieved team knows you have dealt with it. Tough call as it can back fire if it escalates. Getting between two players trying to get after each other can blow up as well. I've never in 5 years of refereeing or 40 years of playing had one of these but certain it will happen as I continue to referee. Hard to say and difficult to deal with. Not easy
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Its plain and simple VC MiB... You need to take your ex-player goggles off, thats pretty much as nailed on red as you can get for situations like this!!
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The fact that you have done it and didnt get sent off does not mean it was handled correctly. This is the kind of thing that leads to punches getting thrown. RC all day. Play was over, foul was whistled, and he deliberately kick the ball into the player on the ground. He has deliberately struck the other player using the ball as an extension of his foot. RC. By no means accidental. The fact that he kicked it into the players face just cinches the deal
 
Interesting even with FIFA’s obvious instructions of leniency that both the Ref & VAR didn’t send him off.

I’m merely an amature but they are top officials.
 
Men in Black said:
I’ve never seen a player dissmised for ever so slightly kicking a ball at an opponent or throwing it at an opponent (i was guilty of both last season, booked for throwing it & nothing for kicking it whilst a player lay on the floor about the same force as Otamendi but not in the face).

I’m not saying it’s not a Red Card but I’m leaning more towards unsporting behaviour than VC I mean come on look up the word Violent in the dictionary & then look at the replay.
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"Offences where an object (or the ball) is thrown
In all cases, the referee takes the appropriate disciplinary action:
• reckless – caution the offender for unsporting behaviour
• using excessive force – send off the offender for violent conduct."

It doesn't refer to the ball being kicked but it comes under the same bracket, judgement call of reckless or excessive force. I sent one last season for throwing the ball in the face of an opponent.
 
Otamendi hardly touched the ball he didn’t boot it he didn’t smash it, it was petulant and followed suite with the game, it was hardly an act of violence.
 
Surely kicking a ball into an opponent's head is excessive force by the very nature of the fact you don't need to do it, ergo any force used is excessive.
 
Men in Black said:
Otamendi hardly touched the ball he didn’t boot it he didn’t smash it, it was petulant and followed suite with the game, it was hardly an act of violence.
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Utter rubbish. The referee had blown his whistle, play had clearly stopped, and the kick was clearly a deliberate attempt to hurt the guy on the floor who was a foot away from him. I suggest you go back and re-read the LOTG section on Violent Conduct, because that was textbook.
 
GraemeS said:
Utter rubbish. The referee had blown his whistle, play had clearly stopped, and the kick was clearly a deliberate attempt to hurt the guy on the floor who was a foot away from him. I suggest you go back and re-read the LOTG section on Violent Conduct, because that was textbook.
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And you would give the same advice to the VAR crew on the night?
 
But I think we all agree that at this world cup you could use a machete before being sternly spoken to! The Laws have been temporarily suspended.
The play had been stopped and he kicked the ball at his face. The LOTG says that ANY hand to face contact must be viewed as violent conduct unless negligible. This was a lot harder and therefore more likely to cause injury than most hand to face contact that would be sanctioned as such, and was totally unnecessary. If I was observing a Referee and they didn't view that as VC their mark would suffer, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that view.
They may be top officials, but they aren't refereeing like it! However, a lot of that is due to the fact they have been hamstrung by FIFA.

I'm surprised the game didn't really kick off at that point to be honest. On a sunday morning if I don't send someone off for that then I will be sending off everyone else for retaliation.
 
markref said:
But I think we all agree that at this world cup you could use a machete before being sternly spoken to! The Laws have been temporarily suspended.
The play had been stopped and he kicked the ball at his face. The LOTG says that ANY hand to face contact must be viewed as violent conduct unless negligible. This was a lot harder and therefore more likely to cause injury than most hand to face contact that would be sanctioned as such, and was totally unnecessary. If I was observing a Referee and they didn't view that as VC their mark would suffer, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that view.
They may be top officials, but they aren't refereeing like it! However, a lot of that is due to the fact they have been hamstrung by FIFA.

I'm surprised the game didn't really kick off at that point to be honest. On a sunday morning if I don't send someone off for that then I will be sending off everyone else for retaliation.
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Mark I woudnt lie to you, last season as a player I threw a ball at an opponents chest / neck got a yellow.

I kicked a ball at a player on the floor about the same force as last night & got nothing.

Both petulant both out of frustration, neither resulting in a Red.

I woudnt continue the conversation as there is a new topic every 5 mins with this World Cup & I’ve taken on board other people’s opinions regarding this incident but as I had first hand experince of it myself last season I thought I’d share it.

Maybe I’ll have the incident to deal with myself next season as a ref & maybe I’ll take a different view on it but the likelyhood with that tap of the ball at the player I’ll be cautioning for unsport behav, if it’s booted full force it may be a different story.
 
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