Are Team Sheets Mandatory under the LOTG?

[Will Triffitt]

I've literally never refereed a team with names on their shirts and that's up to and including the contrib teams I've officiated.

I was talking about in the Premier League then! I've had names a couple of times at open age level!

 

[PinnerPaul]

I couldn't care less to be honest - it's roll on roll off subs (which the LOTG is not written properly to account for), so attempting to monitor who comes on is a complete waste of time. And I'm not required to report who plays to the league in any way in the league I reference before, so what's the point?

The point is its LOTG. If you're assessed and assessor asks you why you didn't get the subs' names, not sure "What's the point" will impress!

Also if you have someone's name as sub, they can turn up with 5 mins to go, they can play (As long as maximum number of subs not named/used already), if you don't have name they can't.

 

[GraemeS]

The point is its LOTG. If you're assessed and assessor asks you why you didn't get the subs' names, not sure "What's the point" will impress!

Also if you have someone's name as sub, they can turn up with 5 mins to go, they can play (As long as maximum number of subs not named/used already), if you don't have name they can't.

That's not a valid reason to do anything - and as I already said, the LOTG are not written with roll-on-roll-off in mind, which invalidates quite a few parts of the relevant law.

And that makes your second point moot as well. There are no maximum amount of subs in these matches. There's no reason I would restrict a player coming on. If I take a list of sub names and limit the players coming on to those names, I'll be stopping the totally legal re-use of a player who was in the starting XI who's name I didn't take.

 

[YorkshireReferee]

That's not a valid reason to do anything - and as I already said, the LOTG are not written with roll-on-roll-off in mind, which invalidates quite a few parts of the relevant law.

And that makes your second point moot as well. There are no maximum amount of subs in these matches. There's no reason I would restrict a player coming on. If I take a list of sub names and limit the players coming on to those names, I'll be stopping the totally legal re-use of a player who was in the starting XI who's name I didn't take.

The competition rules will state the maximum.

Secondly, you won't be stopping the legal re-use of a player because the LOTG state that a substitution occurs between a player on the field and a named substitute. It doesn't matter whether it's rolling or not. Named.

 

[GraemeS]

The competition rules will state the maximum.

Secondly, you won't be stopping the legal re-use of a player because the LOTG state that a substitution occurs between a player on the field and a named substitute. It doesn't matter whether it's rolling or not. Named.

So I just want to clarify this. In a local league I referee in, roll-on-roll-off subs apply AND I am not supplied with a teamsheet. So in order for me to know the name of any potential sub, am I expected to go round the players and effectively write out the entire teamsheet in my notebook before the match? Or alternately, perhaps I should interrogate the players as they go off, significantly slowing play down as I do this? The competition rules specifically encourage referees to not allow repeated subs made only to delay the game, so it seems nonsense to then expect me to slow that process down further.

Either way, all this admin for what? I'm not required to report anything to do with subs to the league, so they don't care. If a player turns up in the correct, safe kit and his manager wants him to play, I don't care. And if the opposition objects for some reason, I'm not equipped with the tools to make an informed decision as to which players can be used from the ground.

 

[YorkshireReferee]

So I just want to clarify this. In a local league I referee in, roll-on-roll-off subs apply AND I am not supplied with a teamsheet. So in order for me to know the name of any potential sub, am I expected to go round the players and effectively write out the entire teamsheet in my notebook before the match? Or alternately, perhaps I should interrogate the players as they go off, significantly slowing play down as I do this? The competition rules specifically encourage referees to not allow repeated subs made only to delay the game, so it seems nonsense to then expect me to slow that process down further.

Either way, all this admin for what? I'm not required to report anything to do with subs to the league, so they don't care. If a player turns up in the correct, safe kit and his manager wants him to play, I don't care. And if the opposition objects for some reason, I'm not equipped with the tools to make an informed decision as to which players can be used from the ground.

It strikes me that you simply have a serious dislike for admin. We had the exact same discussion in regards to you not wanting to report two cases of misconduct on two reports. You state that the competition rules mention subs made to delay. They're not made with the intent to delay if it's what you are doing that is delaying it.

If you find you're struggling to commit to all your pre-match responsibilities, get there earlier.

 

[RefJef]

I'm with @GraemeS on this.

Most football I am involved with as an administrator, ref & (once again) a player (I have organised a team to enter the local veterans league) is about 22 (or more) blokes or kids going out and enjoying a game of football. If it becomes too much of an admin burden everyone will just pack up.

I appreciate that I the higher echelons it's all very important, but in the local Sunday U16s league, or the bottom rung of the very long adults ladder, say, isn't it better that we just focus on playing the game?

 

[GraemeS]

It strikes me that you simply have a serious dislike for admin. We had the exact same discussion in regards to you not wanting to report two cases of misconduct on two reports. You state that the competition rules mention subs made to delay. They're not made with the intent to delay if it's what you are doing that is delaying it.

If you find you're struggling to commit to all your pre-match responsibilities, get there earlier.

I'm not convinced those are the same thing - my problem there was that I perceived a middle ground that WGS didn't allow for.

With regards to this situation though, I do have a problem with unnecessary admin. As I'm not required to do anything with the sub names and it is not my responsibility as a referee to allow/disallow certain players from playing, the admin you describe seems unnecessary and pedantic. All I'm required to do is make sure I don't end up with too many players on the FOP and I've managed that for 3 years of refereeing now without wasting time taking a register every match.

 

[YorkshireReferee]

I'm not convinced those are the same thing - my problem there was that I perceived a middle ground that WGS didn't allow for.

With regards to this situation though, I do have a problem with unnecessary admin. As I'm not required to do anything with the sub names and it is not my responsibility as a referee to allow/disallow certain players from playing, the admin you describe seems unnecessary and pedantic. All I'm required to do is make sure I don't end up with too many players on the FOP and I've managed that for 3 years of refereeing now without wasting time taking a register every match.

You're required to ensure only named substitutes enter the field of play.

The laws of the game state this:

The names of the substitutes must be given to the referee before the start of the match. Any substitute not named by this time may not take part in the match.

If you are not recording the names of substitutes then you are not following the laws of the game. This is not unnecessary admin, this is your job as a referee.