The Ref Stop

Advice on handling interactions with players

refeire said:
as Kes says they are just stating their opinion and aren't actually expecting you to reply anyway.
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Or they don't care what you say anyway.

The other night I had a situation in the box, a player did a roulette turn (fancy!) and went down under a challenge. I was no more than a few yards away, right on top of it, perfect angle. From my point of view, he spun around and his trailing leg (not his standing leg) made contact with the defender and he went down forwards. Now, if he had been fouled, I was expecting him to go backwards due to the nature of the move, and in any case, it didn't come close to his standing leg, basically it had every sign of a player seeking contact but not being fouled. So I shouted 'no foul, play on'.

His manager and some other club official all the way back at the halfway line? "Clearest penalty ever!" and they were adamant the defender took out his standing leg.

So, two guys, from fifty yards or whatever back have a better view than me? And even when I explained what I saw, they dismissed it and it's my fault and I'm clearly blind and so on and so forth.

To be fair, I don't really care if a manager/player disagrees with a decision, I understand sometimes people have different views on what is a foul or not, and I said that to them 'fair enough, that's how you see it' and I already gave my view so I wasn't entertaining it further. Post-match though, wouldn't let it go so I sent the manager off.

You just can't win with some people.
 
The Ref Stop
Interesting about dealing with the benches as AR1. I do a lot of serious contrib-type games with small crowds. I am very careful about what I say to benches. I do deliberately try to get some contact early in the game and I’m pro-active answering any questions. I know it’s going to help me later in the game if I have to diffuse something.

With annoying stuff like technical areas, warm ups etc. if I have to have a word, I make efforts to also talk with the other bench - otherwise there’s a risk of only communicating with the bench behind - no favouritism. And for the most serious games I do, I have the names of all the staff - and remember the names of the head coaches and goalkeepers as they are the ones I am likely going to have to deal with if something crazy happens.
 
RobOda said:
Or they don't care what you say anyway.

The other night I had a situation in the box, a player did a roulette turn (fancy!) and went down under a challenge. I was no more than a few yards away, right on top of it, perfect angle. From my point of view, he spun around and his trailing leg (not his standing leg) made contact with the defender and he went down forwards. Now, if he had been fouled, I was expecting him to go backwards due to the nature of the move, and in any case, it didn't come close to his standing leg, basically it had every sign of a player seeking contact but not being fouled. So I shouted 'no foul, play on'.

His manager and some other club official all the way back at the halfway line? "Clearest penalty ever!" and they were adamant the defender took out his standing leg.

So, two guys, from fifty yards or whatever back have a better view than me? And even when I explained what I saw, they dismissed it and it's my fault and I'm clearly blind and so on and so forth.

To be fair, I don't really care if a manager/player disagrees with a decision, I understand sometimes people have different views on what is a foul or not, and I said that to them 'fair enough, that's how you see it' and I already gave my view so I wasn't entertaining it further. Post-match though, wouldn't let it go so I sent the manager off.

You just can't win with some people.
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It helps to have a very thick skin. Game yesterday, home team who are struggling in the league are 1-0. A completely clean tackle wins the ball in their half and the attacker beats a man and bends one in from 30 yards. Home team manager and players adamant it was a foul but it clearly wasn't and I was 2 yards away. It never stops through out the game, constant appealing and whinging about everything. End of the match and the home team have lost by the odd goal, the other 2 they conceded were long balls over the defence to the striker. Poor defending but the focus is on me of course. Theres no major incidents, 5 yellows in total (4 to the home team who were losing discipline with low level frustrated tackles in the last 5 mins). Manager comes on the pitch to give me some stick and I should've carded him but its nothing too bad just lengthy. I just want to get off the pitch, I've not enjoyed the game one bit and have to go straight to work.

I interacted with the players using all the usual tricks but it occasionally gets to the point that I'm not interacting at all anymore as it just promotes further whinging. It ruins the enjoyment of the game for me and it becomes a chore not a hobby. I have a very thick skin and a decent ability to move on fortunately and I think that's the best advice when it comes to communicating with anyone. Do your best but if it hasn't been successful (and it certainly won't be on some occasions), just move on.
 
Ben448844 said:
It helps to have a very thick skin. Game yesterday, home team who are struggling in the league are 1-0. A completely clean tackle wins the ball in their half and the attacker beats a man and bends one in from 30 yards. Home team manager and players adamant it was a foul but it clearly wasn't and I was 2 yards away. It never stops through out the game, constant appealing and whinging about everything. End of the match and the home team have lost by the odd goal, the other 2 they conceded were long balls over the defence to the striker. Poor defending but the focus is on me of course. Theres no major incidents, 5 yellows in total (4 to the home team who were losing discipline with low level frustrated tackles in the last 5 mins). Manager comes on the pitch to give me some stick and I should've carded him but its nothing too bad just lengthy. I just want to get off the pitch, I've not enjoyed the game one bit and have to go straight to work.

I interacted with the players using all the usual tricks but it occasionally gets to the point that I'm not interacting at all anymore as it just promotes further whinging. It ruins the enjoyment of the game for me and it becomes a chore not a hobby. I have a very thick skin and a decent ability to move on fortunately and I think that's the best advice when it comes to communicating with anyone. Do your best but if it hasn't been successful (and it certainly won't be on some occasions), just move on.
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I think we have all had those games where we are just wishing the time away. The bit about stopping talking to players because it promotes more whinging is also true sometimes, been there!
 
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I have a few colleagues with some strange habits. One has a very high bar for fouls, happily communicates all game but hates giving warnings - so, when he does it is epic, goes on far too long. I would advise against this, especially early in the game, it antagonises the benches and crowd. Last match I supported him by telling the benches as the warning started to be ready for a long one!

I have another colleague who screams at benches from 20-30 yards at the first sign of dissent. It is effective at quietening them - but does not present well.

Always learning right?
 
All good points made re the players and coaches...
The only thing that I haven't noticed being said is that this referee is under 16 (Level 8). The ADULT coaches should definitely not be interacting with this child referee in such a manner. It's intimidation and abuse and should not be tolerated!!
Often at these age groups referees will be appointed by the club, so I think the referee should think about reporting the coaches to the person making the appointments, or the league referee sec if that's relevant.
 
Kes said:
A lot of fairly sound advice on here from guys that know. Just my tuppence worth though ...

Don't worry about "patronising" the players mate. At the end of the day, a lot of the problems associated with players abusing and disrespecting the referee stem from the fact that football referees appear to have been culturally "dehumanised" by players, coaches and spectators alike. In the situations you describe, don't encourage that or pander to their feelings cos' they sure as hell ain't worried about yours when they start questioning your decision especially if it's in a "confrontational" manner.

You can go a long way to reminding them that you're a human being with feelings and emotions just like them, by saying something like "Okay gents/ladies, I've had enough now. It's a foul in the area, therefore it's a penalty. I've given the decision, let it go now before the Sin Bin starts!!" (You then have to stick to your word of course). I don't know how old you are or what you look like, so you may or may not have the appearance and bearing to confidently adopt that approach but all I'll say is it works for me. ;)
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I was discussing this" dehumanising" with my son the other other day.

I'd be interested in what people's views are on asking "refs" to use their name instead? Is this likely to cause issues of a lack of respect or make the person more human?
 
Viridis1886 said:
I was discussing this" dehumanising" with my son the other other day.

I'd be interested in what people's views are on asking "refs" to use their name instead? Is this likely to cause issues of a lack of respect or make the person more human?
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should players use the refs name?

who on earth does not? Are there folk out there who at the toss do not go, " am xxxxx, enjoy the game, good luck? "

its a sporting event not a James Bond novel
 
That's good to know.

Not having taken to the middle yet I didn't know. My reference point is from observation and past playing days. All I currently witness is "Ref, Ref, Ref" and didn't know if this was habit of players or expectations from the person with the whistle.

I suppose the follow up question should be does it make a difference? Does it help?
 
Viridis1886 said:
That's good to know.

Not having taken to the middle yet I didn't know. My reference point is from observation and past playing days. All I currently witness is "Ref, Ref, Ref" and didn't know if this was habit of players or expectations from the person with the whistle.

I suppose the follow up question should be does it make a difference? Does it help?
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as ever each to own. There is going to be someone somewhere insisting he is called ref or lino.
And of course during play there will be the engrained shouts of, ref etc

In my experience, especially with coaches, ( as either ar or ref) there is a definate reduction of dissent and a huge increase of respect when using actual name
Refereeing afterall as is preached so often is not simply being a walking law book, its overall game and ultimtately people managment.
U13 kids, course they likely to use, ref, same as they call their teacher sir or ms
adults, i seriously cant recall anyone having a tantrum whilst using my name, as opposed to ref, where a tantrum and or bad words flow seemingly naturally
 
JamesL said:
Always introduce myself as James. I'm with Anubis, can't imagine there aren't many folknthat don't
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just to clarify, given am unlikely to be appointed to the Cairo cup final, am yet to say " good luck, am Anubis"

that aside, i tend to find when you introduce yourself at the toss, if its not already been given, the captain tends then to go, " am Bobby"

the whole event is about your ability to manage whats in front of you, Anything, no matter how seemingly trivial like, a name, in either direction, that can assist you to do this, is another tool in your locker

its also common decency,


just to add tho, years back with ar, I ignored a maybe foul in front of the benches, played on, cant recall if ball went out or what but, there was then a few shouts of, ref, ref, ref.
assuming it was the coach over the free kick i never paid any attention until few sec later it became clear.....

it was my ar shouting for a sub.

ever since then, if working with guys who we did not know each other, i made a point of putting it in my prematch.
 
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I'm happy with them addressing me as "ref" on the field. In rugby the referee is addressed as "Sir".

I always address the players by their name/nickname if I know it though.
 
Kes said:
I'm happy with them addressing me as "ref" on the field. In rugby the referee is addressed as "Sir".

I always address the players by their name/nickname if I know it though.
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on that, should a player or coach use your name, please tell me you dont advise them, address me as ref

here, anyone shout ' sir' , its more insulting and disrespectful than anything else, sir refers only to a teacher, any other use of sir ' hey sir' is disrespectful
 
Anubis said:
on that, should a player or coach use your name, please tell me you dont advise them, address me as ref

here, anyone shout ' sir' , its more insulting and disrespectful than anything else, sir refers only to a teacher, any other use of sir ' hey sir' is disrespectful
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Slight disagreement there, I referee at a very well known public school and they always call the referees 'sir'.
 
I'll introduce myself to the managers and have made a point of telling captains my name before - goes straight in one ear and out the other, and they certainly don't bother passing it on to any other players! Waste of time IMO, there are much more important things I need to get across in the pre coin toss chat. And the more things you tell them, the more chance they just glaze over and forget all of it.

Best to keep it short and simple, stick to the important stuff and let them just call you ref - which is what they'll do anyway. Works the other way as well - I'm terrible with names, so will be referring to players as Captain/Player/Number X through the match regardless. There are loads of effective ways to "seem more human", and I don't count insisting on being called by name as one of them.
 
GraemeS said:
I'll introduce myself to the managers and have made a point of telling captains my name before - goes straight in one ear and out the other, and they certainly don't bother passing it on to any other players! Waste of time IMO, there are much more important things I need to get across in the pre coin toss chat. And the more things you tell them, the more chance they just glaze over and forget all of it.

Best to keep it short and simple, stick to the important stuff and let them just call you ref - which is what they'll do anyway. Works the other way as well - I'm terrible with names, so will be referring to players as Captain/Player/Number X through the match regardless. There are loads of effective ways to "seem more human", and I don't count insisting on being called by name as one of them.
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All good until matey doesn't even know what number he is wearing 😂😂
 
GraemeS said:
There are loads of effective ways to "seem more human", and I don't count insisting on being called by name as one of them.
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Can you share some of your preferred ones for the benefit of us less experienced folk?
 
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