Advantage

[Kes]

I do know who I am do you know who you are?

Anyway I still don't know how to use multiquote.

lol sadly I wasn't referring to you - one of the other mods must have got to your post before me

As far as knowing who I am.... that's difficult to answer.

Multi-quote, on the other hand, is an easy one to answer. On the right, living next to the Reply button is the -Quote button. Click that button on the post you want to add. Rinse and repeat for all the posts you want to reply to.

When ready to start typing responses, there will be a blue "insert quote" button to the left under the text typing window (opposite the usual "post reply" etc buttons. Click that, it gives you the option to remove any quotes you have changed your mind about, click "quote these messages" button and jobs a good 'un.

Sussed!!

 

[Peter Grove]

Another reason to be careful when playing Advantage is it can damage your match control if you fail to keep track of the fouls that are going on. For example: A player may repeatedly be getting kicked and getting frustrated, and a referee is correct in playing Advantage.... but the wider situation needs to be recognised and dealt with as well.

Or, as the third bullet point from page 73 of the LotG, puts it:

The referee should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play
[...]
• the atmosphere of the match

 

[Jacko]

I've skim read all four pages of this and have to say I agree with @Padfoot @Brian Hamilton and @lincs22

Some of the naivety shown by some of the lesser experienced referee's and future level 5/4's + is pretty astonishing, especially with the advice coming from the three people I've quoted who are all very experienced.

Advantage, yes its a great tool, but as has been mentioned unless there is a great attack it isn't worth playing in the majority of cases, as players at grass roots, supply and even contrib in the majority of cases haven't got the skill to take 'advantage' from the situation you see advantageous for them.

Remember, what do clubs practice at training, and before a game when you turn up?... Free kicks!

After a game, no one will moan about the advantage you played that was okay but didn't come off, but if the player who recieves the ball after the advantage is over loses it and the other team go up the other end and score, every person there will remember the freekick they should of had. Then for a simple freekick you now have to work harder to maintain your match control because they're fine with the lad who lost the ball, it's you they are now blaming for the goal.

 

[DB]

Lesser experienced, absolutely. Naive, not at all.

No-one, including myself have mentioned a situation in which we would use the advantage. Would I allow it for a defending team pinned in their own PA? No, of course not. Would I use it if a player is clearly on the break with a good, obvious goal-scoring opportunity? Yes. If the player carries on running after he's been fouled, that's usually a clear indication that he wants to continue. I'd certainly allow him too if I could see he could make up ground and create a good piece of play; by getting a shot away or a cross across the box where there is a lonely striker because the defence stopped as they thought it was a foul.... Would you play advantage for a challenge on the edge of the box with the player surrounded by defenders? 99% of the time, no chance! Because, as you rightfully state, in the position and situation, a free kick is much more advantageous.

I've only refereed on 11 occasions since qualifying in October (due to the shortage in Cornwall, I refereed quite often prior to qualifying), although I am all for the advantage being played when appropriate, I've not used it that much. Where I have used it, it's been effective. You know when you make a mistake because you are reminded of it for the remainder of the game.

The only time I've had someone have a moan at me for playing the advantage... A defender was fouled on the edge of his box, it was very early on in the game. The ball ran through to the keeper and he gathered it in his hands and shouted at me... I was slightly confused as to why, he had full control of the ball and the attackers hadn't followed... It turned out he was rubbish at kicking from his hands and didn't trust his defence enough to throw it to them. Automatically I understood and remembered.

You guys are all correct in what you are saying, if it is to be applied, you have to be absolutely certain in your head that it is the right thing to do. Otherwise you will end up regretting it.

This is why I like forums; always healthy for a debate and you always get multiple opinions

 

[Kes]

I've skim read all four pages of this and have to say I agree with @Padfoot @Brian Hamilton and @lincs22

Some of the naivety shown by some of the lesser experienced referee's and future level 5/4's + is pretty astonishing, especially with the advice coming from the three people I've quoted who are all very experienced.

Advantage, yes its a great tool, but as has been mentioned unless there is a great attack it isn't worth playing in the majority of cases, as players at grass roots, supply and even contrib in the majority of cases haven't got the skill to take 'advantage' from the situation you see advantageous for them.

Remember, what do clubs practice at training, and before a game when you turn up?... Free kicks!

After a game, no one will moan about the advantage you played that was okay but didn't come off, but if the player who recieves the ball after the advantage is over loses it and the other team go up the other end and score, every person there will remember the freekick they should of had. Then for a simple freekick you now have to work harder to maintain your match control because they're fine with the lad who lost the ball, it's you they are now blaming for the goal.

Perhaps if you did more than just skim-read the pages, you'd see the validity of the opinions of the so-called naive and lesser-experienced referees rather than default to the notion that grass roots is somehow undeserving of advantage being applied.
Like Peter above has quoted, the atmosphere of the match is a a major consideration. That has a direct link to the actions and events during a game of football. It has naff all to do with the individual skill levels of each player or team. If you argue that a grass roots team doesn't have the skill to take advantage of it then then you surely have to agree that the other team doesn't have the skill to defend against it either.
Advantage is nothing more than a situation which presents itself during a match (or doesn't as the case may be). It's up to the referee, irrespective of how "experienced" or at what level he is to recognise it within the context of that particular game and decide whether to call it or not.
To suggest that those who don't have the "experience" of the 3 members you've quoted (though I'm not sure how you arrive at that assumption) are somehow naive is a bit sanctomonious Jacko.

 

[Russell Jones]

If you argue that a grass roots team doesn't have the skill to take advantage of it then then you surely have to agree that the other team doesn't have the skill to defend against it either.

Great point .. well played, sir .

I truly value the wisdom and insight of the more experienced refs and assessors on here .. my opinions (and actions) have frequently changed as a result of stuff I've read on here. However, on this topic, I continue to fundamentally disagree with those advocating playing significantly less advantage at 'lower' levels of football;.

For me, the match control argument is a double edged sword that can be viewed either way. Often, players will get frustrated if you deny them an advantage .. doing that repeatedly will hurt your match control. Equally, playing an advantage and then not bringing it back when a player wastes it can cause you issues. So you can easily be damned either way and so I'd park that aspect.

The key point not really mentioned is that I see it as part of the referee's role to try to generate a free flowing, enjoyable game of football .. and an occasional advantage played in the right areas of the FOP is one of our tools that facilitates this. This becomes increasingly true as you officiate in more senior football where there's a paying public to also consider. And, for what it's worth, I've received positive comments from assessors about my interpretation of advantage in 5 of my 10 assessments to date (it simply wasn't mentioned in the others).

Hopefully we can all agree that overuse of advantage is a bad thing, especially at times when match temperature is rising or in the wrong areas of the FOP. And that possession does not always imply advantage. And that playing advantage shouldn't provide an excuse not to clamp down on Persistent Infringement by a player or a team. Hopefully also we can all agree that occasional use of advantage can be a good thing at every level of the game. After that it just comes down to personal preference as to how stop / start you want the game to be .. or whether you need a breather

 

[Jacko]

Perhaps if you did more than just skim-read the pages, you'd see the validity of the opinions of the so-called naive and lesser-experienced referees rather than default to the notion that grass roots is somehow undeserving of advantage being applied.
Like Peter above has quoted, the atmosphere of the match is a a major consideration. That has a direct link to the actions and events during a game of football. It has naff all to do with the individual skill levels of each player or team. If you argue that a grass roots team doesn't have the skill to take advantage of it then then you surely have to agree that the other team doesn't have the skill to defend against it either.
Advantage is nothing more than a situation which presents itself during a match (or doesn't as the case may be). It's up to the referee, irrespective of how "experienced" or at what level he is to recognise it within the context of that particular game and decide whether to call it or not.
To suggest that those who don't have the "experience" of the 3 members you've quoted (though I'm not sure how you arrive at that assumption) are somehow naive is a bit sanctomonious Jacko.

Sorry @Kes but I have to disagree, if they don't have the skill to make good use of an advantage it doesn't mean the defense are worse it just means the attacking team are more likely to make a mistake themselves to lose the ball, then their opponents go up the other end and either score or nearly score. It will be remembered after a game that they should of had a freekick not you playing an advantage.

You've all bit on me calling you naive and by being less experienced. There are plenty of experienced referee's who are naive too. I didn't mean to patronise.

 

[bester]

Not every team at grassroots just lumps it in from anywhere, there are plenty of sides who try to play. What use is a freekick to them? Just allows the defence chance to set-up.

 

[Kes]

Sorry @Kes but I have to disagree, if they don't have the skill to make good use of an advantage it doesn't mean the defense are worse it just means the attacking team are more likely to make a mistake themselves to lose the ball, then their opponents go up the other end and either score or nearly score. It will be remembered after a game that they should of had a freekick not you playing an advantage.

You've all bit on me calling you naive and by being less experienced. There are plenty of experienced referee's who are naive too. I didn't mean to patronise.

Nah!! You're clutching at straws there mate. The level of skill in attack is directly related to their ability to defend at that level in my opinion, It's a level playing field there (so to speak ).
There are countless occasions during a grass roots match where a forward has the ball in the attacking third of the field, moving forward, is fouled or clipped slightly but manages to continue moving forward with options either still on or opening up for him. Plenty of em. That's where you blow your whistle and bring them back for the free kick and they all moan at you. It's happened to me numerous times Jacko. Naff all to do with skill levels in either defence or attack. It's just football.
Like has already been said, after 3 seconds, if no advantage acrues, then the free kick can always be blown for anyway. Applying the advantage rule during a grass roots match happens all the time. The players know it and expect it from you. Even at that level. And so they should.

 

[Jacko]

I'm not clutching at straws at all. What you've described is more of possession, which isn't advantage.

I'm not saying don't play advantage, but it has to be very good and not first of all at a risk to your match control and the game as a whole must need it. I won't be playing it just before the end of a game or just before half time, when the game is heated too. We only have a second to assess the possible advantage and 3 seconds max to bring it back. A lot to consider in a short amount of time.

It's just football yeah, but refereeing is a finer art, and advantage has to be used wisely.

 

[Kes]

I'm not saying don't play advantage, but it has to be very good and not first of all at a risk to your match control and the game as a whole must need it. . We only have a second to assess the possible advantage and 3 seconds max to bring it back. A lot to consider in a short amount of time.

It's just football yeah, but refereeing is a finer art, and advantage has to be used wisely.

At last we agree on something.
Good debate this is and I'm actually surprised by the divided opinion on the matter.

 

[SM]

At last we agree on something.
Good debate this is and I'm actually surprised by the divided opinion on the matter.

You're still box fresh. You'll get used to it!

 

[Kes]

You're still box fresh. You'll get used to it!

Amen to that.

 

[Isaac]

I'd agree. I would also bare in mind as both a player (first) and referee (second), advantage isn't just about time. Positioning is as, if not more important. For example, you've called advantage but within a second it becomes evident that the ball won't travel very far, I'd expect it to be blown for the FK (or I'd blow) e.g the foul was committed around a group of players and the pass out can't be achieved.

Advantage is exactly that. Has the un-offending side gained advantage by ground (or time) than what they'd have achieved had the FK been awarded? Also, how would you call for a foul if the attacking team wanted the free kick but you'd called advantage? Could the attacking team just kick the ball away or out of the field of play to indicate they don't want the advantage? In some cases, an advantage being played by a referee isn't advantageous to the team, but can be quite detrimental to the flow.

It's a tricky one to determine but you have to be reading the game from both sides of the whistle.

I once called advantage but the player on the ball stopped still and said he'd prefer the free kick. There was no one around him so I thought it would be fine to give the free kick. It just kept my match control imo

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Could easily hurt your match control 'Ref, now you're just giving the free because he asked for it!!" "you're just doing what they tell you!"

I won't be playing it just before the end of a game or just before half time, .

Why not? I would think you'd rather apply advantage and remain less visible then award a free kick for a goal a moment before the end of a match.