A&H

Advantage

I completely disagree - how many free kicks just end up being kicked straight at the opponents? Most free kicks are fairly useless. There's the opportunity - but there also is by retaining the ball. Most players are happy to let the game flow. I always feel that the significance of the advantage must match the significance of the foul. If somebody has been cleaned up then you probably want a pretty good advantage, especially if it's at some low grade level where the player's just going to go after the opponent.
 
The Referee Store
agreed @davidbartlam - I have ref'd and played with some outstanding players at both Saturday and Sunday league ... a lot of sunday league 'grassroots' players down my way also play semi pro on a Saturday - don't forget that ;)
 
Charlie Jones said:
agreed @davidbartlam - I have ref'd and played with some outstanding players at both Saturday and Sunday league ... a lot of sunday league 'grassroots' players down my way also play semi pro on a Saturday - don't forget that ;)
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I think it's quite possibly an age thing.... With us "new breed" of youngsters and all that ;)
 
Kes said:
If playing advantage wasn't considered a normal part of grass roots refereeing - then why has the use of it (or not) always been alluded to in every assessment I've had so far (5 in all)??
:cool:
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Nobody up for attempting to answer my question above then?
In all 3 of the 7-6 assessment's I had a couple of years ago and in both the 6-5 assessments I've had this season, the issue of whether or not I played advantage has been mentioned.
If, as the learned members seem to protest, the application of "advantage" isn't really of any use or benefit at grass roots level, why is it being used as assessment criteria? :)
 
Because there will always be an example, at even the lowest level of football, where a clear advantage should be offered

Example - a defender plays a long punt down pitch and gets fouled in the process. Normally no advantage per se, but imagine this long punt ends up at the feet of the striker who is suddenly clean through? That is where, even if the striker was absolutely useless you would allow the advantage.

The guidance for advantage when you go up the levels is being able to judge more effectively between mere possession and advantage, and also recognising when you should allow advantage based on the severity of the original foul, players skill and the context of the match. It's meant to be a show of your judgment as a referee. From my assessment experiences, not allowing any advantages has been the right call in some games when the match situation demanded it.

I would allow very few advantages at proper grass-roots (e.g. youth or bottom rung Sunday football) but as above there are times it does happen.

I've also had two goals scored from "Play On - Advantage" calls this year, and even went back for a caution on one of them, and let me tell you your match control is through the roof after that. Pity I wasn't being assessed.
 
davidbartlam said:
There seems to be significant lack of respect among people on here for players' ability at grassroots level. It's a shame really :oops:
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Charlie Jones said:
agreed @davidbartlam - I have ref'd and played with some outstanding players at both Saturday and Sunday league ... a lot of sunday league 'grassroots' players down my way also play semi pro on a Saturday - don't forget that ;)
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davidbartlam said:
I think it's quite possibly an age thing.... With us "new breed" of youngsters and all that ;)
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It's an experience thing.......

You might get 1 or 2 players in a team who play at a higher level on a Saturday.....occasionally you might get a team that has a higher number but it's the exception not the norm.

As MW said, there will normally be at least one clear cut opportunity to play advantage.....but you need to consider whether it is worth playing or not in terms of your match control.
 
Charlie Jones said:
just keeping possession isn't an advantage? id say it is ...
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Not always - for instance, if the player with possession is left "running down a blind alley" surrounded by opponents and almost certain to lose the ball within seconds (which could easily be the case).

Surprisingly enough (or not, as the case may be) I think the Laws provide some fairly good advice on the application of advantage. Nobody has quoted it yet, so for what it's worth, here's an excerpt from page 73:

The referee should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play:
• the severity of the offence: if the infringement warrants an expulsion, the referee must stop play and send off the player unless there is a subsequent opportunity to score a goal
• the position where the offence was committed: the closer to the opponent’s goal, the more effective it can be
• the chances of an immediate, promising attack
• the atmosphere of the match
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In case it helps (and I find it does, if applied judiciously) I have seen the second bullet point referred to as "the law of thirds." Basically, what this rendition of the principle says is, be wary of applying the advantage for a team in their own defensive third (there's usually very little chance of a real advantage accruing from there), be more mindful of allowing the advantage in the middle third of the field and be most on the lookout for a good advantage when a team is in the third of the field closest to their opponent's goal.
 
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Monotone Whistle said:
Because there will always be an example, at even the lowest level of football, where a clear advantage should be offered

Example - a defender plays a long punt down pitch and gets fouled in the process. Normally no advantage per se, but imagine this long punt ends up at the feet of the striker who is suddenly clean through? That is where, even if the striker was absolutely useless you would allow the advantage.
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Surely you wait a second to see. That isn't about whether you play advantage. That's about whistling too soon. Waiting a second in most cases is much better than throwing your arms out for an advantage.

On the other point, possession is not an advantage in itself. And, if you are too eager with advantage, there is the problem that you start to apply advantage based on your perception of the team's tactics e.g. this team wants a break from defending so no advantage, this team wants to counter so advantage even though the ball carrier is surrounded.

Too much advantage also means potential loss of match control.

The law is good on this "immediate, promising attack" and "closer to the opponent's goal" are the keys or me. To me, that means you have to have a cast iron case for anything outside the final third that both teams can obviously see is an advantage.
 
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Peter Grove said:
Surprisingly enough (or not, as the case may be) I think the Laws provide some fairly good advice on the application of advantage. Nobody has quoted it yet, so for what it's worth, here's an excerpt from page 73:



In case it helps (and I find it does, if applied judiciously) I have seen the second bullet point referred to as "the law of thirds." Basically, what this rendition of the principle says is, be wary of applying the advantage for a team in their own defensive third (there's usually very little chance of a real advantage accruing from there), be more mindful of allowing the advantage in the middle third of the field and be most on the lookout for a good advantage when a team is in the third of the field closest to their opponent's goal.
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Absolutely correct. It has to be applied correctly which is why for me as a player & a referee, I find it rather easy to judge. Some of my fellow comrades who have not played football before have said to me sometimes they are unsure whether an advantage could be played etc so they usually blow up each time.

You have to be able to understand what's happening, what could happen and the likelihood of that happening :)
 
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But overriding all of that is 'how will it affect my match control?'

Too many referees risk their match control by trying to play advantage because 'I have to keep the game flowing' or 'it's what I would want if I were a player' etc

For the ex players....just because you might have successfully used the
advantage it doesn't mean that those you are refereeing will! You have to take into account the ability of the players you are refereeing......
 
Completely agree with you @Padfoot however, i don't judge a players/teams ability by the division they play in or the fact that it's grassroots. usually, within a few minutes you can get a very good idea of what you're in for :)
 
davidbartlam said:
Completely agree with you @Padfoot however, i don't judge a players/teams ability by the division they play in or the fact that it's grassroots. usually, within a few minutes you can get a very good idea of what you're in for :)
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They play in Div 5 for a reason!

You can tell what you're in for just by watching them arrive, let alone the 'warm up'.....
 
I have to agree with @Padfoot on that lol!

we've all reffed the team that there warm up is a game of head and volleys or sitting down talking
 
Another reason to be careful when playing Advantage is it can damage your match control if you fail to keep track of the fouls that are going on. For example: A player may repeatedly be getting kicked and getting frustrated, and a referee is correct in playing Advantage.... but the wider situation needs to be recognised and dealt with as well.
 
While I dont want to stifle an interesting discussion, can I just throw in a gentle reminder for forum users to maintain respect for others when posting please. This is not a play ground free for all!

Also, please use the multiquote option if you have more than one person to respond to! No names. You know who you are!

:D
 
Mewcenary said:
Another reason to be careful when playing Advantage is it can damage your match control if you fail to keep track of the fouls that are going on. For example: A player may repeatedly be getting kicked and getting frustrated, and a referee is correct in playing Advantage.... but the wider situation needs to be recognised and dealt with as well.
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That has nothing to do with advantage....
 
SM said:
While I dont want to stifle an interesting discussion, can I just throw in a gentle reminder for forum users to maintain respect for others when posting please. This is not a play ground free for all!

Also, please use the multiquote option if you have more than one person to respond to! No names. You know who you are!

:D
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I do know who I am do you know who you are?

Anyway I still don't know how to use multiquote.
 
lol sadly I wasn't referring to you - one of the other mods must have got to your post before me :)

As far as knowing who I am.... that's difficult to answer.

Multi-quote, on the other hand, is an easy one to answer. On the right, living next to the Reply button is the -Quote button. Click that button on the post you want to add. Rinse and repeat for all the posts you want to reply to.

When ready to start typing responses, there will be a blue "insert quote" button to the left under the text typing window (opposite the usual "post reply" etc buttons. Click that, it gives you the option to remove any quotes you have changed your mind about, click "quote these messages" button and jobs a good 'un. :)
 
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