The Ref Stop

Abandoned Game

RustyRef said:
I assume you are a reasonably new referee, and these things are never easy to deal with even for vastly experienced referees.

Just make sure that your report is clear, concise, and identifies anyone that you would have shown a red card to had you not abandoned. Anubis is being unfairly harsh on you with his comments in my opinion so I'd suggest you ignore those, you are the man on the spot so you and you alone know whether it would be safe or sensible to restart the game.
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Thanks. I started refereeing in 2015, stopped in 2017 to study abroad. Only done a handful of games in 2019 and then Covid hit. I remember having a good hold on things after my first 2 seasons and even got awarded with 2 junior cup finals. I guess it's a question of finding myself again
 
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The Ref Stop
Glad to hear that you are okay.

Unfortunately, sometimes you can't win. Whether or not you should or should not have asked the GK to change shirts is irrelevant. The players clearly could not behave appropriately.

Regarding the push, if a push is hard enough, it can be considered as violent and can be 'excessive force'. It is clearly a YHTBT moment as I cannot comment without seeing it.

I am lucky enough not to have abandoned a game (touch wood), but I would have abandoned this by the sounds of it. Unsafe to continue, and hopefully county will issue some strong words to them!

Write your report, keep it to the point with any names and details that you can remember and submit it. If they need more information, they will ask. I would also speak to the ref secretary for the league and speak to them.

Well done - look to the next game and try and push this to the back of your mind for now.
 
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OK, am back. Serious post this time. (although remain curious as to what happened with the ball? 😂)

Mass confrontation is easily the single hardest thing to manage as a referee. 1 pair of eyes, and often more than one place to look.

My first point is as you write it I don't see a red card offence for violent conduct. Aggressive pushing sounds like AA or UB for pushing/pulling an opponent. But that's just how written and you were there I was not.

Before you start trying to single players out you need to have calmed the situation. It reads like that whilst players were still not under control we were trying to get number six over. Did it completely die down before that, or am I reading it right. Anyway, always try to restore calm where you can, before handing out disciplinary sanctions. Running around amidst it all isn't going to restore calm, but continue to fuel behaviour

What was the issue around the keepers top? I know they had one but at grassroots I'd be saying spirit of the game, get it played and report to league later. Would you seriously have not continued the game because the keeper wasn't in a "keeper Jersey"? Same with things like, corner flags, nets. At grassroots participation and safety are key, the rest can be managed and exported accordingly.

Sounds like the teams lost it beyond restrarting the game so abandonment only course of action. I would however, leave the ball where it is (sorry!)
 
Agree with James regarding the keeper jersey. When outfield players clash you can be a bit pickier (I once delayed a kick-off so that a particularly awkward team could send their captain to the local sports direct for non-clashing socks), but for GK's then you can give them a simple choice - find a different colour, or play in black knowing I'll have to report it and there will probably be a small fine that follows. That's usually enough for them to "find" the top they didn't want to wear without having to go nuclear and threaten to call the game off over it.
 
The ball didn't remain in my possession for long 😂 I've always recalled at seminars when discussing ending games the mentors have always said "blow the whistle and pick up the match ball". Anyway I walked off towards to the dressing rooms and just handed it back to one of the home coaches, I think it was the last thing on everyone's mind though haha

Regarding the jersey, all points are taken. I just don't like being taken for a fool and being lied to, which this lad clearly was. Yes though, picking your battles is a technique worth using so I'll bare that in mind. I didn't tell him he couldn't play or the game wasn't going ahead though, I just insisted he put on a keeper's top (which I knew he had).

@JamesL it seems I have not described what happened properly. @SurreyWolves has it what I was trying to say. He struck the guy with both hands using excessive force, he followed through by trying to grab him by the neck. A fight between the pair broke out. Bare in mind, this player never did see red because of the ensuing chaos of his actions. He only ever knew I wanted him over (perhaps he knew what colour he was about to see?)

Genuine question, in such melees, would you suggest to stand there and wait for things to die by themselves? I felt I had to be at least trying to stop what was going on, hence blowing the whistle, trying to order calm and all players away. Everyone expects you to control it but also refuse to cooperate with you.

What was particularly bizarre was the fact the players who were fighting suddenly shook hands, hugged, made up and then I had the player who was #6's victim questioning why I wanted to speak to #6 and home team players telling me to cancel the away keeper's red card and abusing me for not! They seemed to think because they'd all made up that nullified any sanctions!
 
refeire said:
The ball didn't remain in my possession for long 😂 I've always recalled at seminars when discussing ending games the mentors have always said "blow the whistle and pick up the match ball". Anyway I walked off towards to the dressing rooms and just handed it back to one of the home coaches, I think it was the last thing on everyone's mind though haha

Regarding the jersey, all points are taken. I just don't like being taken for a fool and being lied to, which this lad clearly was. Yes though, picking your battles is a technique worth using so I'll bare that in mind. I didn't tell him he couldn't play or the game wasn't going ahead though, I just insisted he put on a keeper's top (which I knew he had).

@JamesL it seems I have not described what happened properly. @SurreyWolves has it what I was trying to say. He struck the guy with both hands using excessive force, he followed through by trying to grab him by the neck. A fight between the pair broke out. Bare in mind, this player never did see red because of the ensuing chaos of his actions. He only ever knew I wanted him over (perhaps he knew what colour he was about to see?)

Genuine question, in such melees, would you suggest to stand there and wait for things to die by themselves? I felt I had to be at least trying to stop what was going on, hence blowing the whistle, trying to order calm and all players away. Everyone expects you to control it but also refuse to cooperate with you.

What was particularly bizarre was the fact the players who were fighting suddenly shook hands, hugged, made up and then I had the player who was #6's victim questioning why I wanted to speak to #6 and home team players telling me to cancel the away keeper's red card and abusing me for not! They seemed to think because they'd all made up that nullified any sanctions!
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I would stand there and watch. Get your pen out and write numbers if you can. You’re a referee, not a police officer. I’d blow whistle loudly 3/4 times. Then stand back and keep your distance. You can deal with it once it has calmed down.
 
refeire said:
The ball didn't remain in my possession for long 😂 I've always recalled at seminars when discussing ending games the mentors have always said "blow the whistle and pick up the match ball". Anyway I walked off towards to the dressing rooms and just handed it back to one of the home coaches, I think it was the last thing on everyone's mind though haha

Regarding the jersey, all points are taken. I just don't like being taken for a fool and being lied to, which this lad clearly was. Yes though, picking your battles is a technique worth using so I'll bare that in mind. I didn't tell him he couldn't play or the game wasn't going ahead though, I just insisted he put on a keeper's top (which I knew he had).

@JamesL it seems I have not described what happened properly. @SurreyWolves has it what I was trying to say. He struck the guy with both hands using excessive force, he followed through by trying to grab him by the neck. A fight between the pair broke out. Bare in mind, this player never did see red because of the ensuing chaos of his actions. He only ever knew I wanted him over (perhaps he knew what colour he was about to see?)

Genuine question, in such melees, would you suggest to stand there and wait for things to die by themselves? I felt I had to be at least trying to stop what was going on, hence blowing the whistle, trying to order calm and all players away. Everyone expects you to control it but also refuse to cooperate with you.

What was particularly bizarre was the fact the players who were fighting suddenly shook hands, hugged, made up and then I had the player who was #6's victim questioning why I wanted to speak to #6 and home team players telling me to cancel the away keeper's red card and abusing me for not! They seemed to think because they'd all made up that nullified any sanctions!
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Try to calm with the whistle but once you realise that's not working, don't waste your breath on it.. Step back, observe. Use your voice where you can (enough now gents) Make mental notes of offences where you can.
Remember the instigator and the retaliator as a bare minimum.
Report to authorities after the game.

PS now sounds like a red card offence.
 
Anubis said:
The LOTG trump this tho. As we already know.
Anyway thats merely a side issie.
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Agree on it being a side note but still worth discussing.

If competition rules specify players shouldn't wear black, it is within the laws of the game and LOTG don't trump it. So they need to be enforced.

To make it easy to understand I would parallel this with shirt numbers. LOTG don't requires shirt numbers but ROC almost always do and if they do, a player can't claim I don't need a shirt number because LOTG don't require it and it trumps ROC.
 
refeire said:
Here's one: U18 game

The away team arrive late requesting to start late, their GK requests to wear a random black nike jersey claiming to not have any GK jersey. I got them going as soon as I could and insisted their GK wore a GK jersey (which then miraculously appeared from the kit bag). The team clearly had the hump with me before the game starts because I wouldn't let them do whatever they wanted - even though I did agree to allow them time for a quick warm up.

Then in the 44th minute the ball went out for a throw in on the side of the pitch with the away team. The away #6 aggressively pushed a home player on the touch line in a manner to start a fight. I blew the whistle and asked the #6 to come to me (I was sending him off for violent conduct). A physical altercation flared up on the spot and it became a melee of about 10 players. The home and away coaches both ran on to the pitch. I blew my whistle and took about 8 steps back. I ordered the home team players to stand to one side and the away to stand to the other side. The players then all came up to me instead protesting, nobody was following any instructions, I repeated myself endlessly for them to go away.

The away GK (the jersey kid) had ran 40 yards up to this incident to rock the boat even further. I ordered him back to his goal - he refused and swore at me, I issued him a red card on the spot -> both sets of players then came up to me protesting as to why I had sent him off. The 2 away coaches about 10 yards away were making it worse. Personal insults towards me were flying in from all directions, I don't even know who said what.

The red carded keeper refused to leave, egged on by his manager and teammates not to leave. Bare in mind #6 still had evaded me. I would have sent off 2 more players and the away coach. I stood there though and looked around me at everyone and the chaos, I did not see a game that could have continued safely. On this basis I blew the whistle, picked up the match ball and left.

A bit of my own reflection, I think I should have sent their coach away before any of this happened. He was foul before the 44th minute and he was the fuel that lit the fire for what eventually happened.
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TBH I have not read many of the other posts here so I may be repeating some things.

Firstly, hope you are Ok. Don't take this games personally. We all have these every now and then. They are the games we learn the most from.

From what you have written I think you are spot on on the reflection. I think defying authority is what caused the abandonment here and that just doesn't flick on like a switch. It slowly creeps into the game and you need to detect it early and stop it when it is easier to stop. I feel that you may have also let a few dissents from players fly by or at least not taken strong enough actions against them.

I have a technique I use to avoid being mobbed by players (you said "players all came up to me"). It may have worked here or it may have not but worth trying. Know the captains. Find them and tell them you are happy to discuss/explain it but they need to get the other players away. They sure want to talk to you and now realise they can do it and it is their responsibility. What happens when/if you get the captains on their own depends on the situation. I usually give them a chance to state their case. Then I ask to be given a chance to talk without being interrupted. In your case I would explained the players who are being sent off and why the are being sent of (or if any cautions). Then I would explain if there is non compliance you would have no option but to abandon. Let them know they don't have to agree with you but this is what would happen and consequences. If you get them onboard then you can manage the rest. Otherwise abandon as you did. of course there is always a chance you wont be able to get the captains on their own but in either case I would let them know that non compliance would mean abandonment and give them a chance to comply.

Needless to say, any emotions you show has to be vey measures and controlled. The more 'personal' a conflict gets the harder it is to control it.
 
Nothing to comment on regarding the decisions you made etc. since it's all been said already.

Regarding the abandonment - absolutely the right decision.

As a fellow referee, here's how I view it, (though some may not agree).

When a bunch of people (players, coaches, officials and spectators) all converge in one place for a game of football, the obvious and overriding assumption for all has to be that they're going to play by the rules and operate sportingly within the framework of the LOTG. Once any of them exhibit behaviour outside of that, ie. behaving as if they're in the pub or the high street, then for me, it's no longer a game of football and I have no business being there. Time to go home. :)
 
SurreyWolves said:
I would stand there and watch. Get your pen out and write numbers if you can. You’re a referee, not a police officer. I’d blow whistle loudly 3/4 times. Then stand back and keep your distance. You can deal with it once it has calmed down.
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Even easier now that we're not in the old days of having to write out exactly what happened in the sending off reports.

Now we can just write, number 7, VC, and as some idiot on TV used to say; 'bish-bash-bosh' it's done.
 
@one your analysis is correct regarding earlier dissent

For instance at one point the GK ended up with 2 balls whilst taking a goal kick - he left one by his goalpost. I asked him to kick it to the sideline and to not keep any spare balls around the goal area. This caused an explosion of anger from their manager. No idea why, why would he even care. He was no doubt just trying to undermine my authority the entire time.

I told him I was the referee and as such I would be refereeing the game, not him. I made the mistake of overlooking the tools I have in my pockets though, the cards. I used to issue warnings if abuse reached a certain personal threshold. 2 warnings and they were gone. I won't be forgetting the cards from now!

@Kes i agree entirely, if they want to kick a ball about without any independent arbiter - they are free to do so, no need for me to be there in such case!
 
Justylove said:
2) Aggressive push into the chest - I'm guessing it's a "you have to be there" situation, however was the benchmark for VC met as per the LOTG? From what you've said, it feels like it should have been a caution only.
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Guys ! Do we really need to be there to understand an aggreesive push to the chest ? I'm sure you can pitcure the scenario. The question is...is it a YC or RC offence ?
 
refeire said:
Here's one: U18 game

The away team arrive late requesting to start late, their GK requests to wear a random black nike jersey claiming to not have any GK jersey.
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Hope you're ok, mate. These things happen. Just dust yourself down and go again.
Q. What does it matter whether it was a GK jersey, or not ? I think the best point you made was that it was black which matched your own. If the league rules don't allow this then you did the right thing by standing your ground.
 
BCMilan said:
Guys ! Do we really need to be there to understand an aggreesive push to the chest ? I'm sure you can pitcure the scenario. The question is...is it a YC or RC offence ?
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Yep we do. We need to understand whether the push to the chest meets the threshold for Violent Conduct, otherwise what offence are you potentially see ding off for?
 
Justylove said:
Yep we do. We need to understand whether the push to the chest meets the threshold for Violent Conduct, otherwise what offence are you potentially see ding off for?
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Let's assume it's just like Di Canio pushing the referee over. Are we saying that is a YC or a RC ?
 
BCMilan said:
Let's assume it's just like Di Canio pushing the referee over. Are we saying that is a YC or a RC ?
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That's an offence against a match official, my threshold for that is far lower than against an opponent.

In a player on player situation, you need to judge the force the push and where the hands make contact.

There is a lower threshold for force if the hands are to the face or neck area.

You have to come back to what the LOTG states for VC which is:

"Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible."
 
Justylove said:
That's an offence against a match official, my threshold for that is far lower than against an opponent.

In a player on player situation, you need to judge the force the push and where the hands make contact.

There is a lower threshold for force if the hands are to the face or neck area.

You have to come back to what the LOTG states for VC which is:

"Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible."
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soooooo...assuming it was a push to the chest (just like the one Di Canio did, but on a player)..would you class that as YC or RC ?
 
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