A&H

6/10

I'm with you to an extent. The notion of club marks is almost as bad as using CARs. It would be folly to referee with club marks in mind, but my scores haven't suffered for being aggressive on discipline. I know that my OA RefSec monitors them, so i know by my appointments how I'm fairing.
I therefore think the scoring criteria needs improvement (to not include LOTG) as the scores are significant to us whether we like the idea or not
How can teams possibly be trusted to accurately mark someone correctly and fairly on something that they consistently fail to comprehend, they've never been tested on and consistently fail to adhere to the bits that they do know. The marks are clueless and biased both ways!!
...Kids don't get to mark teachers do they!!!
 
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In the 8 years I have been refereeing, I have never seen a mark, and to be honest, I would not care what they are anyway.
Not one referee's secretary I have ever met has ever taken any notice of them,
 
How can teams possibly be trusted to accurately mark someone correctly and fairly on something that they consistently fail to comprehend, they've never been tested on and consistently fail to adhere to the bits that they do know. The marks are clueless and biased both ways!!
...Kids don't get to mark teachers do they!!!
I hear ya
In the 8 years I have been refereeing, I have never seen a mark, and to be honest, I would not care what they are anyway.
Not one referee's secretary I have ever met has ever taken any notice of them,
So what do they use? (I've only encountered three RefSecs who all take note)
 
And how many times in your career have you had a referee on the side line with enough spare time on their hands to come and watch you ref? Everyone agrees that it would make more sense for qualified referees to do the marking - but unless you can pull 20,000 qualified referees who are happy to give up an afternoon out of thin air, it's not going to happen.
When I get assessed. It is not up to a manager to coach a referee, it will lead referees down the wrong path and not applying the laws without influence. No need to have every game rated.
 
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Haven't seen a club mark yet and don't wish to. I know myself if I've had a good or bad game far more than most of the managers I deal with, who care equally about the marks I have to give them on the match reports.

I don't suggest that club marks aren't useful to ref secs as there really is no alternative however, I would like to see the marks split into 3s. i.e 0-3 for positioning, 0-3 for decisions etc, thus reducing the chances of being marked really low just because of one decision which may have cost one side the game. You would still get low marks from irate managers but I'd imagine that would happen less. Just a thought
 
Change the criteria to something else. Just a suggestion. There has to be a viable way of judging who the better refs are at all levels
 
Yes, ignore everything, especially dissent and you get consistently good marks from the teams, if the assessor turns up you’ll get crucified and fail miserably with the same match control! Thieir is oodles of money in the professional game, its about how its chose to be spent!!!

No, because a lot of the referees that had the higher marks were also the ones with the higher card counts. The supposition that not carding will get you higher marks is a myth, as even if one team like it the other will likely mark you down for it. I got far more complaints about referees for not using cards than I did for those that did.

Clubs generally want a referee that is in control, keeps a low profile where possible so that they can just play football, but then gets involved when he needs to. What they don't want is a referee who won't deal with situations and lets the game get out of control, one that stays in the centre circle and won't get involved, or one that over uses cards, or more importantly is inconsistent with the use of the cards, and they certainly don't want a referee that wants to be the centre of attention (and there are plenty of those around). From my experience the biggest complaints about referees are ...

- Not being close enough to make decisions and generally being in or around the centre circle. Clubs hate this as it looks like you aren't interested.
- Poor administration before the game, not responding to match confirmation, turning up late, etc.
- Not "getting a grip of the game", this could mean a number of things but is generally a reluctance to get involved
- Not dealing with poor behaviour by one team. If one team is kicking the other of the park, or shouting abuse at them, the other team will expect you to do something about it and not just ignore it
- Not looking right. You'd be surprised, but clubs do want to see referees dressed properly and often complain if they aren't. Falls under the not looking interested category.
- Not being consistent in their decisions, usually when it comes to the use of cards.

For those that are against club marks, do you provide a score when Amazon, Argos, eBay, etc, sell you something and you then get prompted for a review and a mark? They send that because we are their customers, and the managers of these organisations want to know that their employees are cutting the mustard and providing excellent service. I know absolutely nothing about the retail industry, but they still ask for my feedback and I provide it.

Is refereeing any different? The clubs are our customers (no clubs = no referees, which I think sometimes a lot of referees forget about), and the managers (RefsSecs / CFAs) want to know if the referees are providing a good service so they ask the clubs. It is by no means perfect, but there is simply no other viable alternative, and splitting the mark into three sections should hopefully help going forward.
 
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And how would a coach who doesn't even know the LOTG be able to give an accurate assessment on your positioning ?

It's general, they aren't asking whether you were on a diagonal or penetrating the area. Rather it is was the referee close to make decisions, or was he always in the centre circle not looking interested. You don't need to be qualified as a referee to be able to say whether a referee made decisions from close by or 50 yards away.
 
In the 8 years I have been refereeing, I have never seen a mark, and to be honest, I would not care what they are anyway.
Not one referee's secretary I have ever met has ever taken any notice of them,

Really, so how do they appoint for cup finals? Guess work? Or does the RefsSec go out and watch every single referee perform? They may not tell you that they use the club marks, but the vast majority will in some way or another as it is the only metric they have in most cases.
 
It's general, they aren't asking whether you were on a diagonal or penetrating the area. Rather it is was the referee close to make decisions, or was he always in the centre circle not looking interested. You don't need to be qualified as a referee to be able to say whether a referee made decisions from close by or 50 yards away.


While that’s true I had incident Sunday which I was less than yards away perfect position, just as a possible coming together happened someone ran straight accross me, the line I had a moan that my positioning was poor but it was perfect I just got unlucky but they wouldn’t see that.
 
Yes, ignore everything, especially dissent and you get consistently good marks from the teams, if the assessor turns up you’ll get crucified and fail miserably with the same match control! Thieir is oodles of money in the professional game, its about how its chose to be spent!!!

While I am sure that does happen in some cases I'm not convinced that it is as common as people think.
 
While some managers (we know who they are!) do mark according to how the game has gone, most will mark fairly, within the parameters that they often don't actually know what they are looking for! This is despite every league handbook in the country having the guide to marking referees in the back.

As you get more experienced your marks will generally go up because you appear more in control even when you may not be, simply because you appear more confident. You are also more likely to be getting more of the decisions right. This is usually noticed by the man who marks the ref. Most of them are fair, although my friend's dad ran a team for years, and always gave the ref 8, whether good, bad or indifferent (I have been in all three camps while doing his team). The league knew this so everyone did his team so it evened out over the season.

I do two sunday leagues, and am always the one with the highest card count (yellows and reds) on both leagues , because if it should be a yellow then that's what it gets. Likewise if it's a red card challenge. I certainly don't do it for club marks, but I was still top of the marks on one league and just off on the other. Where I struggle is if I do lower division games, they are often not used to someone who shows cards so my marks sometimes suffer. That doesn't bother me at all. It's not why I do it. Most of the time, the teams appreciate someone who does the job properly.

I would not worry about club marks at all. If I am asked to sign the match card after the teams have already filled it in then I have a look, but it doesn't mean anything whether I agree or not. I certainly wouldn't question it.

As a matter of interest, both my leagues ask the referee to also mark the clubs on each game. On one of my leagues the bottom marked team actually has to re-apply to join the league, and several have been voted out by the other clubs! They felt the same way we did on these occasions.
 
While some managers (we know who they are!) do mark according to how the game has gone, most will mark fairly, within the parameters that they often don't actually know what they are looking for! This is despite every league handbook in the country having the guide to marking referees in the back.

As you get more experienced your marks will generally go up because you appear more in control even when you may not be, simply because you appear more confident. You are also more likely to be getting more of the decisions right. This is usually noticed by the man who marks the ref. Most of them are fair, although my friend's dad ran a team for years, and always gave the ref 8, whether good, bad or indifferent (I have been in all three camps while doing his team). The league knew this so everyone did his team so it evened out over the season.

I do two sunday leagues, and am always the one with the highest card count (yellows and reds) on both leagues , because if it should be a yellow then that's what it gets. Likewise if it's a red card challenge. I certainly don't do it for club marks, but I was still top of the marks on one league and just off on the other. Where I struggle is if I do lower division games, they are often not used to someone who shows cards so my marks sometimes suffer. That doesn't bother me at all. It's not why I do it. Most of the time, the teams appreciate someone who does the job properly.

I would not worry about club marks at all. If I am asked to sign the match card after the teams have already filled it in then I have a look, but it doesn't mean anything whether I agree or not. I certainly wouldn't question it.

As a matter of interest, both my leagues ask the referee to also mark the clubs on each game. On one of my leagues the bottom marked team actually has to re-apply to join the league, and several have been voted out by the other clubs! They felt the same way we did on these occasions.

You mean mark the clubs on their behavior on and off the pitch ?
 
Basing promotion on club marks is a bad idea. It encourages referees to makes decisions to please clubs rather than apply the laws and comp rules and we all know they are often contradictory. It is the foundation for creating last week's ref.
 
Just go and do your job to the best of your ability, you will make mistakes, honest mistakes, lack of vision mistakes, 50/50 mistakes, let them worry about you rather than you worry about what they think!! Don't let last weeks ref comments blind you into not doing the right thing!! The cream will always rise to the top!!
 
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Basing promotion on club marks is a bad idea. It encourages referees to makes decisions to please clubs rather than apply the laws and comp rules and we all know they are often contradictory. It is the foundation for creating last week's ref.

Promotion from 7-5 doesn't use club marks any more, at least not as the primary indicator and they are usually only used if observations are borderline. At 5-4 they are only used if you haven't had five observations, if you've had 5 and averaged 73 or above you have to be nominated regardless of club marks. At level 4 and above they are still used, but at that level you are almost always being marked by the club secretary, often ex-referees themselves, as opposed to the managers so the marks are usually much more objective.
 
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Club marks mean jack **** to me. I referee each match as I find it and have never ever known what my "club mark" for any of them was. Why would I care? Managers and coaches grading a referee's performance is a ridiculous concept. Your job is to be objective - theirs isn't.
The way I see it is this - if my "club marks" were consistently crap enough, then the league or county would send somebody qualified out to watch me in which case all would become clear. They haven't/won't so I'm fine.
Club marks. What a load of old pump. :rolleyes: :p:wall:
 
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