RefSix

3 games in & im not convinced..

one

RefChat Addict
#41
@Men in Black, Time and experience makes you get a thicker skin and selective hearing. Much of whats said wont bother you and you will get better at knowing what to ignore, what to manage and what to sanction.
Someone compared it to driving. I would cay more like learning how to ride a bike. You may fall off a few times. You wont have confidence on how to deal with the turns and the bumps on the road although you may know it in theory. Keep going until you get that confidence. It becomes a lot more enjoyable then.
 
#42
@Men in Black - I feel as though I've started in a similar position to you. A bit older than the normal referee starter, I've got an extensive history within the game (albeit as a coach more so than a player) and I've dived straight in to Open Age football.

It's been reassuring to read this thread, as like yourself, after 2 games I've been having my doubts. In my first game I was observed by my coach and I felt as though I had a decent game and I had some good feedback.

2nd game, and first entirely on my own, left me questioning myself. In terms of decisions I feel as though I was correct with most, no big decisions messed up. Only a few ins/outs corner/goal kick where I wasn't sure. The game was going alright until a couple of moments towards the end of the first half.

1. Away team player in attacking half, within playing distance of the ball, uses shoulder to barge off a home team defender. Of course this happened right in front of the home team officials and they were furious that I deemed it fair and shouted play on. From that moment on their 'coach' berated me for just about everything.
2. At an offside decision I had already started running towards the drop zone. Out of my earshot apparently something was said between offender (away team) and CAR (home teams). I had no idea what had gone on so I just went back and warned the offending player. The home team were extremely upset, to put it mildly, that I had only warned the player. At half time the home team CAR (also the club sec) approached me and he was one the angriest people I have ever met. He said that it was 'disgusting' that the opposition had got away with calling him an 'f'ing c...' and that I can 'stick my flag up my a...' How on earth am I meant to have done anything about it if I hadn't heard it?

To be honest from there on I lost my confidence, I didn't really have much control or authority over the game and just wanted it to be over. My decisions were okay. I cautioned an away player for dissent towards the end of the game which was the first card I've ever given out. in hindsight, I reckon I should have given another card for dissent earlier on in 2nd half, and the away team left back should have received a yellow for persistent fouling - I gave too many warnings. There were a couple of challenges that were borderline careless-reckless, I warned the players.

I put in a misconduct report on WGS regarding the half-time incident. I'm going to wrap on another layer of skin (I knew referees needed a thick skin but you don't realize it until you are in that position), forget about what was said and move on to the next game. On reflection, I think I've started 'too nice' as a referee and I need to stamp my authority a bit more. Use my cards and my whistle, that's what they're there for.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#43
To add to my previous post.

A good quote I saw in a book, possibly Howard Webb’s autobiography, and rings true with goes along the lines of :

“To be a good referee you need to learn how to be a ******* without being a ****”


Those comments on their own might not cross a line, but would be a good opportunity to employ the stepped approach.

Give said player a quiet warning, then if he continues a public warning with the captain, and then a card.

If a number of players are taking it in turns then if the captain is a decent bloke I’ll give him a warning along the lines of “it getting bored of your players constantly going on, next person to argue a decision etc is going in the book”

Say it nice and loudly so everyone can hear, but, if you take this route you HAVE to book the next player who pipes up, if you don’t you will lose all credibility for the remainder of the game.

Also, confidence breeds confidence. Even if you don’t feel confident fake it. Nice confident hand signals, a player asks what a foul was for, if you have time a quick “your number 7 pulled him back” will suffice.

Humans, like all other animals, can pick up on your emotions, if the players can tell you’re not that confident they will do everything they can to try and undermine you. If you look like your all over the game then they’re more likely to get on with playing football.
 

markref

Active Member
#44
From that moment on their 'coach' berated me for just about everything.
As you said later in your post, the way to deal with this one is to come down harder. As the incident happened just before half time he's had some time to calm down so the first time he has a go deal with it. If dealing with "technical area" it's best to pull them away from the others to deal with them or you invite other people joining in. Move him a few yards down the line to a neutral area and let him know that he's had time to cool off and he has to stop or the next time you'll be removing him. People can disagree with decisions but if it's so loud / insistent that it's affecting your game then you need to sort it in order to move on.

How on earth am I meant to have done anything about it if I hadn't heard it?
I don't use CARs for exactly this reason, but have done so in the past. When a player says something to the lino that you don't hear then make a point of giving them a really strong lecture near to the line so that he can hear what's said, and reinforce that you didn't hear it but you'll be keeping an eye / ear open from now on and if you hear any sort of abuse towards the assistant then you'll deal with it. It will be at least a yellow and may well be a red. A club assistant is there to help you out, so you need to support him when necessary. It's a very fine line, because I've heard players have a go at the CAR, but I have also heard the CAR give it back or even start it. Without knowing the full story it's a difficult one, and since you didn't hear it you don't know the full story. You did exactly the right thing in reporting the incident, so well done for that.

If you feel you're losing confidence then blag it! Kill the game by not playing any advantage and make every signal really strong. Louder whistles and really straight pointed arms for direction. If players disagree with you then warn them not to - my standard response is "next comment's a caution, player!" Then if he disagrees again you've warned him, and everyone else knows you mean business.

We all start out being too soft but the players soon get us out of that. A lot of the problem is that players expect anyone wearing a badge to be the finished article, and after 2 - 3 games you're not going to be, but we really don't want to give new referees L-plates!!! All you can do is make sure you deal with incidents as they arise, and as you say, be stronger when necessary.
 
#45
As you said later in your post, the way to deal with this one is to come down harder. As the incident happened just before half time he's had some time to calm down so the first time he has a go deal with it. If dealing with "technical area" it's best to pull them away from the others to deal with them or you invite other people joining in. Move him a few yards down the line to a neutral area and let him know that he's had time to cool off and he has to stop or the next time you'll be removing him. People can disagree with decisions but if it's so loud / insistent that it's affecting your game then you need to sort it in order to move on.

In this instance I decided to just completely ignore it, but I won't be doing that again.

I don't use CARs for exactly this reason, but have done so in the past. When a player says something to the lino that you don't hear then make a point of giving them a really strong lecture near to the line so that he can hear what's said, and reinforce that you didn't hear it but you'll be keeping an eye / ear open from now on and if you hear any sort of abuse towards the assistant then you'll deal with it. It will be at least a yellow and may well be a red. A club assistant is there to help you out, so you need to support him when necessary. It's a very fine line, because I've heard players have a go at the CAR, but I have also heard the CAR give it back or even start it. Without knowing the full story it's a difficult one, and since you didn't hear it you don't know the full story. You did exactly the right thing in reporting the incident, so well done for that.

If you feel you're losing confidence then blag it! Kill the game by not playing any advantage and make every signal really strong. Louder whistles and really straight pointed arms for direction. If players disagree with you then warn them not to - my standard response is "next comment's a caution, player!" Then if he disagrees again you've warned him, and everyone else knows you mean business.

We all start out being too soft but the players soon get us out of that. A lot of the problem is that players expect anyone wearing a badge to be the finished article, and after 2 - 3 games you're not going to be, but we really don't want to give new referees L-plates!!! All you can do is make sure you deal with incidents as they arise, and as you say, be stronger when necessary.
I'm not sure if not using CAR is an option in my league. In my two games so far, CAR have caused more grief than support, they change around a lot and some of them have been decent while others issue after issue. I am starting to understand the cynicism towards them on here!

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Not a good experience but one to learn from. I know how I am setting out next game.
 
#46
@Men in Black - I feel as though I've started in a similar position to you. A bit older than the normal referee starter, I've got an extensive history within the game (albeit as a coach more so than a player) and I've dived straight in to Open Age football.

It's been reassuring to read this thread, as like yourself, after 2 games I've been having my doubts. In my first game I was observed by my coach and I felt as though I had a decent game and I had some good feedback.

2nd game, and first entirely on my own, left me questioning myself. In terms of decisions I feel as though I was correct with most, no big decisions messed up. Only a few ins/outs corner/goal kick where I wasn't sure. The game was going alright until a couple of moments towards the end of the first half.

1. Away team player in attacking half, within playing distance of the ball, uses shoulder to barge off a home team defender. Of course this happened right in front of the home team officials and they were furious that I deemed it fair and shouted play on. From that moment on their 'coach' berated me for just about everything.
2. At an offside decision I had already started running towards the drop zone. Out of my earshot apparently something was said between offender (away team) and CAR (home teams). I had no idea what had gone on so I just went back and warned the offending player. The home team were extremely upset, to put it mildly, that I had only warned the player. At half time the home team CAR (also the club sec) approached me and he was one the angriest people I have ever met. He said that it was 'disgusting' that the opposition had got away with calling him an 'f'ing c...' and that I can 'stick my flag up my a...' How on earth am I meant to have done anything about it if I hadn't heard it?

To be honest from there on I lost my confidence, I didn't really have much control or authority over the game and just wanted it to be over. My decisions were okay. I cautioned an away player for dissent towards the end of the game which was the first card I've ever given out. in hindsight, I reckon I should have given another card for dissent earlier on in 2nd half, and the away team left back should have received a yellow for persistent fouling - I gave too many warnings. There were a couple of challenges that were borderline careless-reckless, I warned the players.

I put in a misconduct report on WGS regarding the half-time incident. I'm going to wrap on another layer of skin (I knew referees needed a thick skin but you don't realize it until you are in that position), forget about what was said and move on to the next game. On reflection, I think I've started 'too nice' as a referee and I need to stamp my authority a bit more. Use my cards and my whistle, that's what they're there for.
From someone in the same boat just live & learn, I’m facing things each week that are knocking my confidence in game & also giving me food for thought on how I dealt with the situation, I had a manager running the line that dropped the flag and stormed off, I’ve had all sorts of different situations take place & I probably handled every single one of them in the wrong way, but by god if any of those incidents ocour again I know exactly how I’ll deal with them this time round.

It’s very difficult to process what’s happening around you then decide what course of action to take all in a very short space of time, you then have to deal with the backlash from anyone that feels aggrieved, it’s a thankless task.

It’s easy for me or anyone to say what your should & could have done but aslong as in your mind you know that put back in the same situation this Sunday what you would do differently that’s what matters.

I can only speak for the league I ref in, I’ve played in that league for a number of years & I know generally there is no trouble especially aimed at Refs, that’s why I chose the league.

All I can say is when you take a refereeing course they don’t teach you to be a peace maker with fully grown adults, they don’t teach you how to emotionally deal with threats or aggressive behaviour, you can’t just pack your bag the minute sum1 starts and run away, u have to Carry on with the game & stay strong, live it & learn for next time.

My biggest issue would be with my temper that if someone started on me like that how I would stop myself from puting them on there arse which would be the end of my refereeing career, I handled my altercation with a Lino / manager issue all wrong but I know exactly how I’ll deal with it next time.

I was very down Sunday after my game & I posted on here am I cut out for this, I’ve had time to reflect gather my thoughts & ill get my backside back out there Sunday, I reckon you should do the same & whatever happens do your best at the time & learn from your mistakes on how you dealt with the situation.

It can’t get any worse for either of us, it can only get better no matter how long it takes it can only get better you won’t feel worse than you did that second half & after the game.

Keep posting keep sharing your games everyone on here has been there seen it or is currently in the same boat.

Good luck.
 

markref

Active Member
#47
I'm not sure if not using CAR is an option in my league. In my two games so far, CAR have caused more grief than support, they change around a lot and some of them have been decent while others issue after issue. I am starting to understand the cynicism towards them on here!

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Not a good experience but one to learn from. I know how I am setting out next game.
Agreed, there are some very good ones and also some very bad ones. When I have used CARs in the past then I brief them and tell them that I'll support them as much as possible. You could try something similar to give them some ground rules, such as not to flag unless the player actually plays the ball. While doing this tell him you'll keep the players off his back as much as you can but that you've got to hear something to be able to deal with it. Then it's not a surprise if someone says something and you don't do what he thinks you should.

I do two sunday leagues - both say in the League rules that clubs must provide an assistant, but one has changed this to say "when asked for by the referee" because there are several of us who don't use them and would not do the league if they tried to enforce this. On the other league I'm the only one who doesn't use them, but after a couple of games they don't even notice there are no linos and just get on with the game. It's cheaper for them that way!
 
#48
Agreed, there are some very good ones and also some very bad ones. When I have used CARs in the past then I brief them and tell them that I'll support them as much as possible. You could try something similar to give them some ground rules, such as not to flag unless the player actually plays the ball. While doing this tell him you'll keep the players off his back as much as you can but that you've got to hear something to be able to deal with it. Then it's not a surprise if someone says something and you don't do what he thinks you should.

I do two sunday leagues - both say in the League rules that clubs must provide an assistant, but one has changed this to say "when asked for by the referee" because there are several of us who don't use them and would not do the league if they tried to enforce this. On the other league I'm the only one who doesn't use them, but after a couple of games they don't even notice there are no linos and just get on with the game. It's cheaper for them that way!
Why cheaper - they don't pay CARs surely?:eek:
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#49
From someone in the same boat just live & learn, I’m facing things each week that are knocking my confidence in game & also giving me food for thought on how I dealt with the situation, I had a manager running the line that dropped the flag and stormed off, I’ve had all sorts of different situations take place & I probably handled every single one of them in the wrong way, but by god if any of those incidents ocour again I know exactly how I’ll deal with them this time round.

It’s very difficult to process what’s happening around you then decide what course of action to take all in a very short space of time, you then have to deal with the backlash from anyone that feels aggrieved, it’s a thankless task.

It’s easy for me or anyone to say what your should & could have done but aslong as in your mind you know that put back in the same situation this Sunday what you would do differently that’s what matters.

I can only speak for the league I ref in, I’ve played in that league for a number of years & I know generally there is no trouble especially aimed at Refs, that’s why I chose the league.

All I can say is when you take a refereeing course they don’t teach you to be a peace maker with fully grown adults, they don’t teach you how to emotionally deal with threats or aggressive behaviour, you can’t just pack your bag the minute sum1 starts and run away, u have to Carry on with the game & stay strong, live it & learn for next time.

My biggest issue would be with my temper that if someone started on me like that how I would stop myself from puting them on there arse which would be the end of my refereeing career, I handled my altercation with a Lino / manager issue all wrong but I know exactly how I’ll deal with it next time.

I was very down Sunday after my game & I posted on here am I cut out for this, I’ve had time to reflect gather my thoughts & ill get my backside back out there Sunday, I reckon you should do the same & whatever happens do your best at the time & learn from your mistakes on how you dealt with the situation.

It can’t get any worse for either of us, it can only get better no matter how long it takes it can only get better you won’t feel worse than you did that second half & after the game.

Keep posting keep sharing your games everyone on here has been there seen it or is currently in the same boat.

Good luck.



The course teaches you the laws yes. The rest needs to come from you. Your personality, your mannerisms, your fitness, your common sense, everything.
Being a referee is not just knowing how to recite a book. I could take a book home for 8 weeks on open heart surgery, study it till the words sunk in and probably be able to answer 75% of a test at the end. Does this mean I go out next day and perform an op? Hell no. Its not my thing, refereeing is an outward display of your inner abilities, can you manage folk, can you ignore what has to be ignored, can you be deadpan when needed, smile when needed and rule with an iron fist when needed. Can you be humble enough to say you got a throw in wrong, can you be strict enough to send off a 12yo girl in tears on her birthday.
All this is not in a book, how can it be, there is no way of rehearsing life, nevermind playing out every football senario,
Practise practise practise and when you done practising. Practise some more
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#50
I’m finding I need a second sometimes for something to process in my head & it must look odd to the players, throw ins are the best example if the Lino doesn’t signal I’ve got to give it, if it’s a slide tackle by the touch line it can be tricky to work out who the ball touched last, I’ll pause for a split second process it in my brain and then give it, but the players want it instantly.
That's a fairly easy one for me MIB.

Use the CAR/lino to your advantage each time in that situation. If the ball goes out of play for a throw and he doesn't signal cos he doesn't know himself then simply ask him loudly so that all the players can hear you:

"Okay lino, which way are we going?
"No?"
"Okay then guys we're going that way (simply pointing towards the end which results in the attacking team being awarded the throw in). "Attacking throw gents".

Your decision should be instantly sold to the players because they know you weren't sure either.

The same sort of thing applies with goal kicks/corners in the same circumstances. If your lino doesn't know and neither do you for sure, then always award the goal kick.

Throw-ins - attacking team.
Goal kicks/corners - defending team.

You may have got it wrong literally, but the consequences of any error are minimised in each case.

Generally works for me. :)
 
#51
Exactly my point, the interpersonal skills the situation defusing & every other aspect of man management comes from you there is no training for it, it’s just getting out there and learning week on week as I’m finding out myself.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#52
That's a fairly easy one for me MIB.

Use the CAR/lino to your advantage each time in that situation. If the ball goes out of play for a throw and he doesn't signal cos he doesn't know himself then simply ask him loudly so that all the players can hear you:

"Okay lino, which way are we going?
"No?"
"Okay then guys we're going that way (simply pointing towards the end which results in the attacking team being awarded the throw in). "Attacking throw gents".

Your decision should be instantly sold to the players because they know you weren't sure either.

The same sort of thing applies with goal kicks/corners in the same circumstances. If your lino doesn't know and neither do you for sure, then always award the goal kick.

Throw-ins - attacking team.
Goal kicks/corners - defending team.

You may have got it wrong literally, but the consequences of any error are minimised in each case.

Generally works for me. :)
What if the attackinh team have rory delap? ;)
 
#54
What if the attackinh team have rory delap? ;)
Amazing you should say that but funnily enough one of the teams on Sunday did, this fella not only scored four of there six goals he also launched the ball like a missile, I had to disallow one direct throw into the net & everytime he took a throw it caused havoc so that’s how bad my luck was out 5 or 6 times it was 50/50 what way to give the throw & to make things worse if I gave it to him then the other team threw a paddy coz they knew what was coming.
 

RefJef

Well-Known Member
#55
Without wishing to derail this thread, my worse ever game started going down hill when I let the attacking team have a throw instead of a free kick (foul committed inside attacking half, but ball went forward, looked like it was going to land nicely for an attacker - I was looking for an advantage when defender hurtles across and kicks ball out for a throw)

"We'll go back for the free kick gents" I call (no-one to bothered/surprised by this: was a foul, was worth waiting a second or two to see if advantage came, but it didn't.)

"Can we have the throw instead?" ask the attackers.

"Well" me-thinks, "why not? They are the team that have been wronged, personally I think a free kick is a better option, but if they want a throw in, they can have a throw in."

Up steps Somerset's answer to Rory Delap, launches ball onto the waiting head of his centre-forward, who nods it in. One - nil.

"But you said it was a free kick" cry more than one of the defending team. It was a long afternoon from that point on. Couldn't please anyone from that point on. (Even had the slightly farcical situation of the defending team claiming the ball had gone off for a corner, the attacking side a throw, such was the potential of his throws. All four of their goals came from long throws.)
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#56
All I can say is when you take a refereeing course they don’t teach you to be a peace maker with fully grown adults, they don’t teach you how to emotionally deal with threats or aggressive behaviour
Indeed, but then, they shouldn't have to. People should be mature enough to conduct themselves in a way befitting a grown adult.

My biggest issue would be with my temper that if someone started on me like that how I would stop myself from puting them on there arse
I guess, really you just need to frame it in a way that you're the bigger person, you're the parent to the crying child. Do you let them antagonise you, or do you stand your ground and discipline them? I suppose everyone has their own way of dealing with it, I remember one story that someone said, is when he's on the field, all the abuse he hears, that's for the guy in the black, but it isn't for him, it isn't a personal attack, it's just an attack on the 'figure'.

Still, if you keep an eye out, you may find training courses or events held by the police or training sessions in care-work - both these fields have very good sessions on people-management and how to handle aggression etc, without allowing your emotions/temper to get the best of you. Every little helps really. :)
 
#57
Indeed, but then, they shouldn't have to. People should be mature enough to conduct themselves in a way befitting a grown adult.



I guess, really you just need to frame it in a way that you're the bigger person, you're the parent to the crying child. Do you let them antagonise you, or do you stand your ground and discipline them? I suppose everyone has their own way of dealing with it, I remember one story that someone said, is when he's on the field, all the abuse he hears, that's for the guy in the black, but it isn't for him, it isn't a personal attack, it's just an attack on the 'figure'.

Still, if you keep an eye out, you may find training courses or events held by the police or training sessions in care-work - both these fields have very good sessions on people-management and how to handle aggression etc, without allowing your emotions/temper to get the best of you. Every little helps really. :)
Personally I think maybe the courses you mention should be compulsory as part of the ref training, it really is a big part of the job & obviously as a new ref your going to make mistakes that will of course lead to more aggro from players & spectators.

Personally I’ve ref’d three games & ive had two or three heated debates on field & one off field with a manager who ran the line, I don’t want to ever have a single debate whilst the game is live again, infact I don’t want to debate a single thing again with a player, I’m gonna have to learn quickly to let a lot go over my head & if i do get a persistent moaner not to take it personally & to deal with it in a professional manner, no more being self aware every 5 secs - no more mind set like I’m one of the lads a footballer - no more giving two f*cks what either team think about my decision, Time to be a ref & not everyone’s mate or enemy every five mins.

God it’s easy to write it and think about it & so bloody hard to implement on a Sunday.
 
#58
You hit the nail again talking about the emotional side. Deffo the hardest part for me to adjust to. I used to be either so disappointed in players, sometimes angry, sometimes embarrassed for them - and of course the same feelings about myself. Confidence in decisions helped that a lot. And sometimes you just have to stick your neck out - OK, a lot!

In the first couple of years of reffing I felt I was focusing too much on individuals. Quite early on I realised I would benefit from ignoring the score in matches. Early on I think I focused on player personalities rather than their actions. TBH I am still now totally gutted when I have to deal with over the top complaining or full on dissent. And I get a bit sad about it. But... conversely, I now feel much better able to respond to incidents as they happen, take decisions as they come, and make harder decisions. What am I saying here... there's light at the end of the emotional tunnel. But do it your way.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#59
What if the attackinh team have rory delap? ;)
Who cares?
The issue at hand here is the decision-making process of the referee. The attacking team having Mr Delap in their midst is a player concern only. Not a refereeing one.
Besides, what if they don't have Rory Delap?
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#60
Who cares?
The issue at hand here is the decision-making process of the referee. The attacking team having Mr Delap in their midst is a player concern only. Not a refereeing one.
Besides, what if they don't have Rory Delap?
Whilst it was a tongue in cheek comment it was meant to question why you would award to the attacking team when unsure which way. Surely, safe refereeing, is to go defensive in these scenarios... meaning less chance of a KMI resulting directly from you potentially getting a decision wron
 
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