A&H

“He can’t say leave it!”

C

Cadds

New Member
Level 6 Referee
First post here; thought I would find out what you all think about this.

Every so often, I am met with screams of “You can’t say leave it!” Whether I hear it or not.

As far as I know, it could be punishable by an indirect free kick, but I don’t really know if that is a credible result.

What do you think?
 
The Referee Store
Comes up all the time. It can only be an IDFK if there is a caution for verbal distraction. Unfortunately a lot of referees perpetuate the myth that "you have to put a name on it" but giving an IDFK with no caution, which is totally incorrect in law.

All you have to determine is whether the words used were intended to deceive an opponent. 99 times out 100 saying leave it is just a direct instruction to a team mate and therefore fine.
 
RustyRef said:
All you have to determine is whether the words used were intended to deceive an opponent.
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Technically the law covers more than just intending to deceive .
"• verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart" for example a loud "aaaargh" to put off someone about to take a shot is not deceiving them but still cautionable.

A bit of common sense here. If there has been no material impact from the distraction, I usually continue play and give a warning on the run or next stoppage. If he does it again then caution is coming, even if I play advantage.
 
The result of the words is more important than the words themselves. If a player says 'mine', 'leave it' etc and no one is distracted by that then there's no offence. The simplest way to explain would probably be something like 'it didn't affect your team so I can't call it'.

If the opponent can easily see which player is saying 'mine', 'leave it' then also this cannot be distracting them on its own as they would know they can ignore it.

However a player is taking a risk if they shout something like that because it is ambiguous and can result in the opponent being distracted, which would be an offence. And the correct action is indirect free kick + caution. I have done this once for a player running alongside and shouting directly at the player in possession.
 
Cadds said:
First post here; thought I would find out what you all think about this.

Every so often, I am met with screams of “You can’t say leave it!” Whether I hear it or not.

As far as I know, it could be punishable by an indirect free kick, but I don’t really know if that is a credible result.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Some of the responses on here may be a bit misleading ... ;)

Verbally distracting an opponent is NOT an IDFK offence. That's like saying OFFINABUS is!!

If you identify "verbally distracting an opponent" as an offence during your game, then the correct action as per the LOTG is to stop play and issue a mandatory caution. Full stop. That's it. The IDFK is simply the correct restart .... :cool:
 
Kes said:
Some of the responses on here may be a bit misleading ... ;)

Verbally distracting an opponent is NOT an IDFK offence. That's like saying OFFINABUS is!!

If you identify "verbally distracting an opponent" as an offence during your game, then the correct action as per the LOTG is to stop play and issue a mandatory caution. Full stop. That's it. The IDFK is simply the correct restart .... :cool:
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No, the laws of the game do specify that an IDFK is awarded for verbal offences. Then, in the list of 'unsporting behaviour' cautions, verbal distraction comes up.

To take another example of 'IDFK offences', playing in a dangerous manner is in that list but isn't also a mandatory caution.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
No, the laws of the game do specify that an IDFK is awarded for verbal offences. Then, in the list of 'unsporting behaviour' cautions, verbal distraction comes up.

To take another example of 'IDFK offences', playing in a dangerous manner is in that list but isn't also a mandatory caution.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that my friend ... the sanction always comes before the restart ... ;)
 
CaptainsPlease said:
We would be signalling for the award of the free kick before pulling out the card.
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Not necessarily. If the ball wasn't in play at the time (ie "at a restart").

Also, if in play, you could still apply advantage (no IDFK) and still go back and caution for it ... ;)
 
Kes said:
Not necessarily. If the ball wasn't in play at the time (ie "at a restart").

Also, if in play, you could still apply advantage (no IDFK) and still go back and caution for it ... ;)
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Neither of which changes the fact that the laws specify an IDFK is awarded for verbal offences.

Advantage, and whether the ball is in play, are their own considerations that are not specific to verbal offences.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
Neither of which changes the fact that the laws specify an IDFK is awarded for verbal offences.

Verbally distracting an opponent during play or at a restart is it's own consideration and is not specific to IDFK offences.
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Like I said, we can disagree. The instance of VDO is not a nailed-on IDFK for the reasons stated. It is however, always a mandatory caution.
 
RustyRef said:
Comes up all the time. It can only be an IDFK if there is a caution for verbal distraction. Unfortunately a lot of referees perpetuate the myth that "you have to put a name on it" but giving an IDFK with no caution, which is totally incorrect in law.

All you have to determine is whether the words used were intended to deceive an opponent. 99 times out 100 saying leave it is just a direct instruction to a team mate and therefore fine.
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As a player, I always thought you couldn't say that. However, when I did my ref course I couldn't find anything in the LOTG, other than deliberately deceiving an opponent.
A few years ago, I reffed a cup final where the centre forward was standing about 10m offside. The ball was launched over the top (out wide) and a lad from the attacking team shouted "leave it", which everyone assumed was aimed at his striker. The Forward stood still and raised his arm to signal he wasn't going near it. The right back from the attacking team burst forward collected the ball, rounded the keeper and slotted home. The defending team went berserk. The manager went berserk. I had a really good experienced ref as an AR on the day and asked him at HT what he thought. His answer was "were they deliberately trying to deceive an opponent ? No. So, it's a great decision". Phew !
 
BCMilan said:
As a player, I always thought you couldn't say that. However, when I did my ref course I couldn't find anything in the LOTG, other than deliberately deceiving an opponent.
A few years ago, I reffed a cup final where the centre forward was standing about 10m offside. The ball was launched over the top (out wide) and a lad from the attacking team shouted "leave it", which everyone assumed was aimed at his striker. The Forward stood still and raised his arm to signal he wasn't going near it. The right back from the attacking team burst forward collected the ball, rounded the keeper and slotted home. The defending team went berserk. The manager went berserk. I had a really good experienced ref as an AR on the day and asked him at HT what he thought. His answer was "were they deliberately trying to deceive an opponent ? No. So, it's a great decision". Phew !
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Yeah, I thought the same as a player, it was only when I qualified as a referee and still played that I stopped appealing for it.

As I've said before, the big issue is that there are a lot of referees who think you "have to put a name on it" and give an IDFK with no caution. They are just perpetuating the myth and making other referees lives much harder.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
Neither of which changes the fact that the laws specify an IDFK is awarded for verbal offences.

Advantage, and whether the ball is in play, are their own considerations that are not specific to verbal offences.
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No, the IDFK is the restart when verbal distraction has taken place. It is not an "award". It is the restart when play has been stopped solely to issue the caution ... for the offence of verbal distraction.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
No, the IDFK is the restart when verbal distraction has taken place. It is not an "award". It is the restart when play has been stopped solely to issue the caution ... for the offence of verbal distraction.
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If you stop play for an offence, and restart with anything other than a dropped ball/goal kick/throw in/corner kick, (in which case you're most likely to not be stopping play for an offence) it's an 'award'

No need for semantics here on the 'restart' and etc.
 
The language about verbal offenses was added to the law to clarify other language about offenses against officials that IFAB had added that some thought suggested OFINABUS or dissent against an official could be a DFK. It not added to creat new set of offenses. (Prior to the language aimed to make physical offenses against game officials a DFK, restarts following a caution (unless it was a DFK offenses as well, such as a reckless tackle, were IFKs.) The offense is USB. The restart is an IFK.
 
Once again, ifab has caused unnecessary debate by their inability to word laws and changes.

Law 12 in the good book (maybe not so good anymore) says:
(I removed some unrelated dot points):

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s) or other verbal offences
• commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
The first dot point was only added after the clarification mentioned in @socal lurker 's post. For a long time it was only the second dot point.

this doesn't negate the fact that if you "award" the IFK, it can only be dissent, OFFINABUS, or the only other verbal offence in law, verbally distracting an opponent, all of which are mandatory sanctions. Basically awarding a FK without the sanction would be clearly wrong in law.

I also remember someone on here asked a similar question from IFAB with a surprising reply that most of us disagreed with.
 
Almost all refs penalised this myth when I was a kid growing up playing local junior football. As I progressed as an adult footballer it seemed to be the older refs that still penalised this myth so I thought it was dying out somewhat (although I still hear whinges about it in my games, I'd say it's less than it used to be). But then I mentored a young referee a few weeks ago who awarded an IDFK (no card) in a game for an 11 year old shouting mine. He's clearly been taught that you can't say "mine" or "leave it" etc by someone so this myth is still going around. Its almost impressive how stubborn it is!
 
The junior league I came up in decided to add this as a 'league rule'. There were signs up all over the site to say you needed to 'put a name on it'

Safe to say, as soon as I became the League Referee Liaison Officer, those signs came down pretty quickly
 
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