Exactly ! certain games in my area definatley do
U8's non competitive
- Thread starter The Ginger Ref
- Start date
"Refereeing" as a parent/coach volunteer in 5v5 and 7v7 is what got me into refereeing. I did all the free online modules I could and took it seriously and it was both a great way to start and also ensured the game was controlled. I agree those games don't need a fully qualified referee, but having someone with a knowledge of the LOTG and the rule of mini-soccer is definitely valuable.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
One issue we face is that leagues in adjacent areas apply different sets of rules, each within the allowed rules.
Each league therefore needs to offer league-specific training, rather than a national or CFA perspective.
I personally won’t do below u11s but wouldn’t say others shouldn’t as is being implied on certain posts here I would also argue these games are meaningful for the future of the sport.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
They are, but to develop the referee force we need referees to be learning and gaining skills, whereas at Under-8's the players are just there to have fun playing football with their mates.
I watched two U-8 matches on Saturday morning last week . . . 1 (accidental) trip was penalised in 60 minutes, and apart from that it only needed someone to indicate the method of restart.
I will say (or write) this, I think if there is a choice between refereeing an under 8 or being an AR in a youth game then yes we should be giving referees, particularly new ones a chance on the line. It aids fitness also because of the running involved, as well as watching how the man in the middle controls the game and learning from that. Allowing the more "mature" refs a gig in the less paced environments should be an option if they and the teams so wish.
Having done my first U13 match after many u15s I can clearly see the difference. Yes, the players have not yet mastered their skills, but there is evidently a lot more enjoyment of the game, less confrontation (at least on the pitch) and the wee high pitch voices saying "Good save keeper" to their opposition goalkeeper is something I haven't heard anywhere else. The simple fact is that there is 'joy' and sporting behaviour that a coach hasn't yet drummed out of them in the younger matches Who doesn't want to be a part of that?
Having done my first U13 match after many u15s I can clearly see the difference. Yes, the players have not yet mastered their skills, but there is evidently a lot more enjoyment of the game, less confrontation (at least on the pitch) and the wee high pitch voices saying "Good save keeper" to their opposition goalkeeper is something I haven't heard anywhere else. The simple fact is that there is 'joy' and sporting behaviour that a coach hasn't yet drummed out of them in the younger matches Who doesn't want to be a part of that?
Kes
I'll Decide ...
My "tone" may have been somewhat offish for which I apologise.
Irrespective of the contents of post #14 however, it's clear to most on here that 6 and 7 year olds absolutely don't need a qualified referee to "officiate" their football. Thuggish/obnoxious behaviour by parents is an entirely different matter and nowt to do with football.
I disagree also as I believe that is a referees choiceMy "tone" may have been somewhat offish for which I apologise.
Irrespective of the contents of post #14 however, it's clear to most on here that 6 and 7 year olds absolutely don't need a qualified referee to "officiate" their football. Thuggish/obnoxious behaviour by parents is an entirely different matter and nowt to do with football.
RefRyanAus
Active Member
Most of the case supporting the involvement in referees in these types of games seems to be around parent and spectator management. If this is so, then I am not really sure involving a qualified referee is the right answer. If U8s can’t have a kick around without the pressure to perform and without the usual parental harassment of referees that occurs in older age groups then the cultural problems in our game are much worse than I realised. Whilst I feel great sympathy for those referees who might feel it necessary to be involved in these games from a player safety perspective and totally support those parent referees who might just like to be involved from time to time in their kid’s games, I don’t think it should be a usual practice or a stepping stone for referee development. This should be the domain of game leaders in the form of parents or other responsible persons (including older junior players) who can have a go with the support of their clubs. Apart from all the other reasons stated above for not involving qualified referees in these games, doesn’t it just send the message that the game is serious when it should be fun and doesn’t it just create a massive problem for next week’s game leader who is just a mum or dad and doesn’t have any of the skills and experience of a qualified referee? It is mind boggling to me.
Not even to learn, practise hand signals etc?
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
. . . while U-11's don't get an appointed referee . . .?
Runner Ref
Active Member
I started out in mini soccer. For me it helped give me the basics of signalling, whistle tones and just general management of refereeing a football match. I genuinely believe that going straight into an age group with the addition of offsides would have been a bit of a struggle.
I completely understand why people think higher age groups need to be prioritised for a qualified referee, but I don't agree that you get no development whatsoever from mini soccer
I completely understand why people think higher age groups need to be prioritised for a qualified referee, but I don't agree that you get no development whatsoever from mini soccer
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Kes
I'll Decide ...
Nobody said it wasn't but if you think that standing on a tiny football field, "officiating" a bunch of kids that are not much older than toddlers is gonna help develop your game then crack on ...
Personally I think 5v5 and 7v7 are good starting points for potential refs, and firmly believe newly qualified refs of any age will benefit from doing youth 9v9 and 11v11 in their early days for a myriad of reasons, and could stretch that to 7v7 for young (14yo) newly qualified refs. Now my lads moved to 11v11, I only do 9v9 as a favour on days I otherwise can't get/don't have a game and I do agree with you that 5v5 and 7v7 don't need qualified refs at all, and shouldn't take refs away from other age groups. That said, if a parent who's qualified was going to stand on the sidelines watching their son or daughter play in 7v7 I don't see the harm or negativity in them refereeing.
As someone who qualified at the latterly age of 26, I never even considered youth football. I then agreed to officiate a youth tournament in my first summer and having done all open age up to then I felt a little bit of a spare part on the pitch for the youth games. Each to their own though.
I reffed a game recently (aged below 10) and there was a "tackle" that was two footed, late and sent the opponent spinning in the air.
I issued a yellow after thinking was it worth red but i wasn't sure whether it was clumsy or deliberate.
Problems were then caused for me when the offending player started crying. During, after and a few days later.
I'm now considering quitting youth football becuase i feel referees are judged to be guilty until proven innocent.
The tide has turned against referees considerably in the last 10 years. The clubs are now the county paymasters after the FA has reduced funding.
Clubs can have "a free pop" with no consequences for lying.
Sad really.
I issued a yellow after thinking was it worth red but i wasn't sure whether it was clumsy or deliberate.
Problems were then caused for me when the offending player started crying. During, after and a few days later.
I'm now considering quitting youth football becuase i feel referees are judged to be guilty until proven innocent.
The tide has turned against referees considerably in the last 10 years. The clubs are now the county paymasters after the FA has reduced funding.
Clubs can have "a free pop" with no consequences for lying.
Sad really.
So let’s say the same player made two appalling tackles the previous week and was subbed off/given advice education, could it be seen that it worked!! Of course we have no idea whether this was the case. However, what we do know that following any advice given to the player following the first appalling tackle, he took no notice, because he did it again. I am very surprised no formal action was taken following the 2nd offence.
Youth matches want referees but they don't want the game to be refereed as per the LOTG.
I recently got (low level) abuse for booking a delightful young chap for PI (a text book totting up as far as I was concerned) . Both the coach and a parent (not the same person) confronted me, saying things like, “This isn’t the Premier League,” “You shouldn’t be booking kids,” and “You’re ruining the game.” Ironically, this was a team I had covered three times as a favour, as they hadn't been assigned a referee. After that incident, the coach never spoke to me again.
I’ve since cut back on refereeing youth matches. The time commitment and the match fee simply aren’t worth the hassle of dealing with wannabe Pep Guardiola's, young players mimicking Bruno Fernandes, and parents who act like they’re in Green Street. I find it quite ironic that we as referees are instructed not to engage with spectators at adult games, but youth football seems to expect us to be the enforcer, needing to tell the match day representative (essentially, the unqualified "head teacher") to deal with unruly parents—or risk having the game abandoned. Thanks once again to the influence of the professional game, and the unfortunate lack of impact from the Respect campaign.
In comparison, managing adult games is far easier.... okay it's somewhat easier. You only have to control 22 players, a manager, the subs, and maybe “Brian with the dog.” If cards are necessary, they're not met with the same level of shock you find in youth football. In fact, in my last match, I even had a player telling me I’ll be in the Premier League soon (I type this with my tongue firmly in my cheek) after I gave a yellow card for AA.
But in all seriousness, I’d rather handle a bit of banter/dissent from an adult than spend my Sunday being verbally abused by a clueless parent.
Absolutely understandable how you are feeling. I think that parents hide behind what happens in the professional game just making excuses because most Referees do make allowances because of age group and will only administer formal misconduct action if it really needs to happen. If an 8 year old gets hit in the face and starts to cry the Referee is almost certain to stop the game & even allow the mother on if she wants to console her son/daughter etc. But that doesn’t give the parents the right to think that their child is beyond the Laws of the Game, nor the behaviour of some of the parents, many of whom want their child to be in the PL earning lots of money by the time they are 18!! How many times I use to hear comments like “break his leg” or “hack him down” from the sidelines - sickening really. The Standard Chartermark/Safeguarding Certificates often displayed at clubs is usually there as a PR/tick box exercise because the reality is many clubs, but certainly not all, hide behind them when in actual fact they don’t support Referees when they should 100% do.
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