The Ref Stop

World Cup referee standards

O

Ori

Well-Known Member
Level 6 Referee
Having watch so many games, I’m wondering if anyone else thinks the standard of referees is lower than normal. I mean it’s been low for many tournaments ever since blatter offered referee positions in World Cup for votes to keep him in power, but it seems lower than normal.

The last France game was a disgrace in officiating. With no disrespect meant, a referee from Uzbekistan league has no place at this level. I would say that there are many referees on this forum who would do a better job.
 
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The Ref Stop
An issue with any tournaments of this nature is that the 30 (?) referee teams selected aren’t the best 30 in the world, because of the global spread.
 
The overall standard was always likely to be slightly lower than previous tournaments given that there are 52 51 referees for this one compared to 36 previously, but taking the France-Paraguay match out of the equation, I don't recall any other horrendous performances.

As for the disrespect towards Uzbekistan, Ravshan Irmatov was one of the top referees in the world for a decade despite 'only' refereeing the Uzbek League. I suppose Marciniak can't be much good if he 'only' referees on the Ekstraklasa? Damir Skomina couldn't have been much good either, refereeing on the PrvaLiga...
 
ARF said:
The overall standard was always likely to be slightly lower than previous tournaments given that there are 52 51 referees for this one compared to 36 previously, but taking the France-Paraguay match out of the equation, I don't recall any other horrendous performances.

As for the disrespect towards Uzbekistan, Ravshan Irmatov was one of the top referees in the world for a decade despite 'only' refereeing the Uzbek League. I suppose Marciniak can't be much good if he 'only' referees on the Ekstraklasa? Damir Skomina couldn't have been much good either, refereeing on the PrvaLiga...
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It’s not a disrespect to him personally. The league he referees is nowhere near the level of a European league or even American league.
It’s like me claiming I can ref a premier league match given that I referee an amateur league.
I would love the chance, but no way am I remotely qualified.

You can always find anomalies of a ref from a remote league who does well, but overall the refs in the World Cup should be from best leagues in order to maintain a high standard.

Again you missed the corruption point on how blatter used to bargain referee awards to nations in order to secure votes.
 
Ori said:
Having watch so many games, I’m wondering if anyone else thinks the standard of referees is lower than normal. I mean it’s been low for many tournaments ever since blatter offered referee positions in World Cup for votes to keep him in power, but it seems lower than normal.

The last France game was a disgrace in officiating. With no disrespect meant, a referee from Uzbekistan league has no place at this level. I would say that there are many referees on this forum who would do a better job.

FIFA is corrupt and I don’t mean in the sense of rigging matches (I wouldn’t put it past them), but the whole thing stinks from where they appoint the competition to and to how it’s run and the money they make out of it as a “non profit”.
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That’s a big statement to make saying FIFA is corrupt & is a word in my world that is banded about too often whether it be FIFA, FIFA Referees (or PL & Premier League Referees) & without any proof other than a below par performance or a strange decision, or in the case of FIFA (not in respect of Blatter) because of seat prices, sponsorship deals, tv rights etc. I actually feel that overall, the standard of Referee has been ok, with some below par performances as well as some very good.
 
DavidObs said:
That’s a big statement to make saying FIFA is corrupt & is a word in my world that is banded about too often whether it be FIFA, FIFA Referees (or PL & Premier League Referees) & without any proof other than a below par performance or a strange decision, or in the case of FIFA (not in respect of Blatter) because of seat prices, sponsorship deals, tv rights etc. I actually feel that overall, the standard of Referee has been ok, with some below par performances as well as some very good.
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I think corruption in fifa has long been well established. I always defend referees. Even the best have an off day like anyone anywhere.

I stand by my point that we should only have the best referees in this tournament and I fail to see how refereeing in say the Qatar league can in anyway make you qualified to ref a World Cup.
 
Ori said:
I think corruption in fifa has long been well established. I always defend referees. Even the best have an off day like anyone anywhere.

I stand by my point that we should only have the best referees in this tournament and I fail to see how refereeing in say the Qatar league can in anyway make you qualified to ref a World Cup.
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I take your point, but that could be said about the teams involved. Are the 48 countries involved the best in the world, or is it that they just happened to get higher in their qualifying groups, which is slightly different! In any event, as Archer has correctly pointed out, Referee teams selected aren’t the best 30 in the world because of the global spread & which is why that Referee was appointed to the France v Paraguay game because they couldn’t select a European or South American Referee. And they have made it bigger because of money, though call me old fashioned, but not because of corruption, but for the reasons of costing multi millions to host & to spread profits across the globe to develop the game etc. Others may have different views.
 
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World Cup referee standards aren't just dropping, refereeing standards period are dropping.

More than a decade of inadequate referee mentorship and development coupled by a lack of continued learning means that as the decades go on and newer referees come in to phase out the old, we will only continue to see a decline in officiating standards. Technology and IFAB meddling will work in the opposite direction of progress, giving referees more crutches they will expect to lean on rather then heightening officiating standards, essentially creating a snowball effect of declining officiating competency. If its this bad now, imagine what the next 50 years of football will have in store.

Corruption and match fixing won't go anywhere. The best counter to corruption is having pride in your work. There is a declining amount of referees who take pride in what they do, and its easier to convince yourself to cheat when you're disillusioned in the system you serve.

This issue is far bigger and more systemic then just referees having a bad day, day after day.
 
DavidObs said:
I take your point, but that could be said about the teams involved. Are the 48 countries involved the best in the world, or is it that they just happened to get higher in their qualifying groups, which is slightly different! In any event, as Archer has correctly pointed out, Referee teams selected aren’t the best 30 in the world because of the global spread & which is why that Referee was appointed to the France v Paraguay game because they couldn’t select a European or South American Referee. And they have made it bigger because of money, though call me old fashioned, but not because of corruption, but for the reasons of costing multi millions to host & to spread profits across the globe to develop the game etc. Others may have different views.
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Well having just watched another game where the officiating was below what I expect of semi pro leagues, I stand by my original comment.

As for corruption. Making the World Cup bigger is definition of greed and corruption. FIFA has enough money, but is greedy. Surprising for a non profit?
And this may sound small, but the Ronaldo suspended red card to allow him to play in first 3 matches stank. Whether it’s because of his friendship or because they just wanted him there for commercial reasons…..that’s corruption. The rules were not applied.
Now we have it with a USA player. Suspended sentence because the president made a call?

John Oliver did a post years ago about corruption in fifa. Was very funny, but sadly very true.
 
Just to contradict myself a little. I thought ref today at England match was superb.
Thought he handled a tough match really well. Tough game to manage and he handled it really well. Carded at the right time to control the match.

Not sure why VAR getting involved in penalty. Thought it has to be clear and obvious. Freeze frame to determine if he got the ball or player within one frame is not clear and obvious.
 
LCCE said:
World Cup referee standards aren't just dropping, refereeing standards period are dropping.

More than a decade of inadequate referee mentorship and development coupled by a lack of continued learning means that as the decades go on and newer referees come in to phase out the old, we will only continue to see a decline in officiating standards. Technology and IFAB meddling will work in the opposite direction of progress, giving referees more crutches they will expect to lean on rather then heightening officiating standards, essentially creating a snowball effect of declining officiating competency. If its this bad now, imagine what the next 50 years of football will have in store.

Corruption and match fixing won't go anywhere. The best counter to corruption is having pride in your work. There is a declining amount of referees who take pride in what they do, and its easier to convince yourself to cheat when you're disillusioned in the system you serve.

This issue is far bigger and more systemic then just referees having a bad day, day after day.
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I don’t agree. I think referees are better trained than ever. But unrealistic expectations have risen exponentially. There are also far too many law changes every year. And the televised VAR game continues to diverge as a different sport.
 
Ori said:
Just to contradict myself a little. I thought ref today at England match was superb.
Thought he handled a tough match really well. Tough game to manage and he handled it really well. Carded at the right time to control the match.

Not sure why VAR getting involved in penalty. Thought it has to be clear and obvious. Freeze frame to determine if he got the ball or player within one frame is not clear and obvious.
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Because VAR is re-refereeing the game microscopically.
 
You pay peanuts....

The 'financial compensation' for refereeing in pro or semi-pro leagues is nowhere near comparable to that of players. And the gap widens the higher up you go.
Elite refereeing needs a person who is on the elite group of those with mental and physical ability. And those people are attracted to lines of careers wich are a lot more financially rewarding early on.

When the pool of those you can choose from is small there is only so much developing and mentoring can do. Comparing it to players, there is a huge pool of candidates to choose from for clubs to develop.
 
one said:
You pay peanuts....

The 'financial compensation' for refereeing in pro or semi-pro leagues is nowhere near comparable to that of players. And the gap widens the higher up you go.
Elite refereeing needs a person who is on the elite group of those with mental and physical ability. And those people are attracted to lines of careers wich are a lot more financially rewarding early on.

When the pool of those you can choose from is small there is only so much developing and mentoring can do. Comparing it to players, there is a huge pool of candidates to choose from for clubs to develop.
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Overall I agree with your comments, though my thoughts are that elite officials receive decent remuneration, but players are overpaid, albeit the paying public go to watch players & not Referees.
 
santa sangria said:
I don’t agree. I think referees are better trained than ever. But unrealistic expectations have risen exponentially. There are also far too many law changes every year. And the televised VAR game continues to diverge as a different sport.
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I concur. Especially in England whereby over the past year or so since the arrival of Ross Joyce, much resource has been spent on development at levels 3 to 6 & at the elite levels, following the conversion to Pro Ref, the PL/EFL have provided further funds for Referee development.
 
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