The Ref Stop

Gillingham Vs Crawley

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Russell Jones said:
Having now watched the MOAS footage, I believe the decision is correct. The defender's clearance deflects off the attacker on it's way back to the CK taker, who was in an offside position at the time of the deflection. Only additional thing the AR could have done to 'sell' the decision would have been to sidestep up to level with where the offence actually occured.

Whilst in reality irrelevant to the actual decision, for me the defender's clearance is a deliberate play. It's a controlled clearance (despite any potential prior attacking touch) with the ball going largely where intended.
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I'm in total opposite to @RefereeX . I disagree with the first part and agree with the second.

Even though the quality of the video is not too bad, the camera distance to the incident is very far and the angle is not the best for any of us to say definitively if and/or when the ball touched the attacker. I also watched the video a number of time on 0.25 speed on a big screen (EDIT: I found the video on youtube. OP is blocked for me). IMO the likelihood the attacker actually made contact one the flick is low and even lower for the ball to have contacted the attacker after the defender clearance.

I'm with those who think the AR was to focused on not missing an unlikely event and being clever and missed one of the crucial criteria for offside.
 
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The Ref Stop
DavidObs said:
And for the purposes of this incident without the use of VAR, surely we have to say that the AR was not incorrect to advise & the Referee was not incorrect to support/make the decision.
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Well, depends on what the reason was for the flag. The attacker being in an offside position is clearly correct. If AR thought there was a touch after the clearance then he was in a reasonable position to call it and your statement holds true.

However if it was a deliberate play vs deflection decision, then there should have been a quick comms discussion between the AR and the ref before the flag. IMO of course.
 
one said:
Well, depends on what the reason was for the flag. The attacker being in an offside position is clearly correct. If AR thought there was a touch after the clearance then he was in a reasonable position to call it and your statement holds true.

However if it was a deliberate play vs deflection decision, then there should have been a quick comms discussion between the AR and the ref before the flag. IMO of course.
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Definitely with deliberate play v deflection & comms discussion, though it is so difficult to tell one way or the other despite some on here spending time looking at the incident on different formats/screens, though on the whole I agree with Russell Jones that it is a deliberate play because it’s fair to say it was the defenders intention to deliberately play the ball before the deflection.
 
Russell Jones said:
Respect where you are coming from. And shows the inherent difficulty of Deliberate v Deflection! For me though, in this case, any attacking touch has been so slight as to have not inconvenienced / stopped the defender doing exactly what he intended. If it looks and smells like a controlled clearance then it probably is one! Obviously if a more significant attacking touch had led to a misplaced, out of control play by the defender then that would be different :)
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I suppose I guess we're kind of on the same page, because I'm referring to if there was a touch from the attacker that I would consider more than just 'skimming' off of him. But if you're telling me it was defender first then it's all irrelevant anyway.
 
@Russell Jones Do they show another camera angle.
It doesn't look particular close to contacting the attacker after the defender plays it in the OPs video.
Although the trajectory/spin of the ball might suggest it did
 
bester said:
@Russell Jones Do they show another camera angle.
It doesn't look particular close to contacting the attacker after the defender plays it in the OPs video.
Although the trajectory/spin of the ball might suggest it did
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No. But the footage is higher quality and it's pretty clear that the trajectory of the ball changes. The best angle to see it from definitively would be the side of the AR in question!!
 
bester said:
@Russell Jones Do they show another camera angle.
It doesn't look particular close to contacting the attacker after the defender plays it in the OPs video.
Although the trajectory/spin of the ball might suggest it did
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Just watched it myself on MOAS. It shows actually that it comes off the other player I believe, not the one challenging the defender for the ball
 
What's disappointing is that even if the commentators don't realise that it was the original corner taker who was offside and not Dack because of the complexity of the decision, you would at least hope they'd know the difference between a near side offside flag and a centre of pitch offside flag - plus presumably picked up on the location of the restart.
 
Can someone help me out here please, to help me check my understanding. This is what I think happened:

  1. Blue player A takes the corner, stays in/near corner after the kick so is in an offside position
  2. Red defender X clears the ball
  3. Ball leaves red players foot and strikes/hits/brushes blue player Bs leg/foot
  4. Blue player A retreats from offside position to collect ball, and crosses it in
  5. Asst Ref flags for offside.
Is my understanding of events above correct?

If so, if 3 above doesn’t happen, no offside?

The touch from an attacking player doesn’t have to be deliberate when considering offside?

Just trying to get my head round this to better understand and improve as a referee.

Thanks
 
RefJef said:
Can someone help me out here please, to help me check my understanding. This is what I think happened:

  1. Blue player A takes the corner, stays in/near corner after the kick so is in an offside position
  2. Red defender X clears the ball
  3. Ball leaves red players foot and strikes/hits/brushes blue player Bs leg/foot
  4. Blue player A retreats from offside position to collect ball, and crosses it in
  5. Asst Ref flags for offside.
Is my understanding of events above correct?

If so, if 3 above doesn’t happen, no offside?

The touch from an attacking player doesn’t have to be deliberate when considering offside?

Just trying to get my head round this to better understand and improve as a referee.

Thanks
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Absolutely spot on
 
RefereeX said:
Just watched it myself on MOAS. It shows actually that it comes off the other player I believe, not the one challenging the defender for the ball
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That's where I was going wrong, I was looking for a deflection off the defender challenging him, now looking again it is pretty obvious it hits the blue 5.
 
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