The Ref Stop

Leeds v Everton

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The first time I saw this I thought I would not be giving that with how close the arm is to the body. But then from other angles you see how much he has moved to get in the way. You take the risk you pay the price and it is definitely not a decision for VAR to overturn.

I'm sure this will get on the Mic'd Up show (assuming that is still running) and I'm sure Webb will note how it has split opinion and ex-pros have thought it was handball. It will be interesting to see whether he thinks there is enough here to determine a deliberate handball (because there is no way I can see this being considered a non-deliberate handball / making the body unnaturally bigger).

The BBC highlights give the best angle of this, for anyone looking.
 
The Ref Stop
The defender knows full well what he is doing, and is playing with fire by doing it. But on the flip side, has he made himself bigger or have his arm in an unnatural position for what he’s doing?
 
Runner Ref said:
The defender knows full well what he is doing, and is playing with fire by doing it. But on the flip side, has he made himself bigger or have his arm in an unnatural position for what he’s doing?
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I agree with you, he has done neither of those things. It's therefore not an 'unnatural position' handball IMO.
However, I believe this was correctly classed as a 'deliberate' handball because of the clear movement of the arm towards the ball .. the fact that the arm movement was accompanied / part of an overall body movement does not get the player off the hook.
 
Exactly ! He knows what he's doing. He knew the shot was coming and could easily have moved his arm another couple of inches behind his back (like his team mates did). IMO having his arm by his side is unnatural
 
One of the most if not the most difficult type of handball to give & only have to listen/read the comments of established ex PL players to see 2 conflicting views eg Sutton with no handball & Neville & Carragher for handball. With the latter 2 being defenders and played many hundreds of games between them, even if people still had a different view, I don’t think anyone can blame the Referee via his AR for giving it & certainly wasn’t a clear & obvious error.
 
It’s a bit like when a striker uses his arm to “cushion” the ball to help control it when it gets played over the top. In those cases the hand is by his side in a natural position, but it’s still an offence because it’s a deliberate handball.
 
Yep, because they've tried to chest it and got it wrong...or deliberately left it there in the hope the ref doesn't see it
 
Indeed - would sum it up as "if you move into the line of the ball to block it, you have to do that without using your hands or arms."
 
David F said:
Indeed - would sum it up as "if you move into the line of the ball to block it, you have to do that without using your hands or arms."
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I’ve seen it ONCE and that was my instinct. He’s put his body in the way, tried to chest it, and got it wrong by a matter of a couple of inches… and fully-well knows it.

Tough titties mate. Pen.
 
If he gone for it without keeping his arm in an unnatural position for that movement he might've been able to block it with his chest...
 
Granted it was a long time ago and the handball law was simpler, but when I qualified I was taught that if a player leant his body towards the ball he was taking a risk. If he got far enough it would hit his chest, if he didn't it would hit his arm and be an offence. Feels to me that Tarkowski took that risk, yes his arm was by his side but he has still moved it into the path of the ball.

Somewhat comically this was being discussed on talkSPORT earlier and the presenters said they are fed up of VAR involvement and it just shows referees are scared to make decisions. Interesting point, but somewhat irrelevant given it was given as handball by the on-field officials and had nothing to do with VAR (other than checking the already made decision) 🤦‍♂️
 
Not a penalty for me. To counter the explanation of moving towards ball, imagine his hands iterlocked behind his back, turning body and moving in the path of the ball at the same time (common blocking move). No one will give that if the hand hits the ball. In fact I remember seeing it at least a couple of times last season.

I think handball at the moment is a lottery. A call is made on field and then VAR checks. Review or no review, given the law is open to interpretation, some sort of intrpretation of law support that ref/VAR decision. Most times the support is strong. But sometimes very shaky. For me this one is a shaky one.

Put it this way, had VAR asked for a review and decision overturn, the support for that would have been much stronger.
 
I just don't like that the law means Tarkowski would've been fine if he'd flung his arm out but is punished for keeping it as close to his body as possible!
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
I just don't like that the law means Tarkowski would've been fine if he'd flung his arm out but is punished for keeping it as close to his body as possible!
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I don't agree he kept it as close to his body as possible, though. A player at that level knows the shot is imminent and could have moved it totally behind his back, like his team mates around him did
 
I don’t understand why anyone is talking about unnatural position on this play. That isn’t the real question. If this is a HB, it is because it is deliberately handling the ball. Per the glossary, deliberate applies to the action , not the result (and there is nothing new about that—it was the same back in the days of “intentional”). Here the player deliberately tried to move into the path of the ball to block it, and the arm was part of that deliberate action. The deliberate action of moving the arm into the path of the ball resulted in the arm blocking the ball. That is deliberately handling the ball. The addition of unnatural position doesn’t “undo” deliberate handling.
 
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