Newcastle Vs Aston Villa- Duran Red Card

[Big Cat]

That's where I'm at. There was ample opportunity for him to avoid that contact on the back.

Not things we can consider on the pitch as referees, but Duran's head was gone from when he felt he was humiliated at a free kick a few minutes before, plus he has history for this kind of thing. Absolutely no doubt in my mind that the red mist descended and he lost it.

A good guess. A guess I would agree with. Still a guess though

 

[RustyRef]

A good guess. A guess I would agree with. Still a guess though

Yeah, but you are guessing either way. Plus here I think the immediate reaction of most people was red, it is only the multiple replays from several angles that call it into any question. Whether it was a guess or not, Taylor had to make a decision and I personally think he made the right one. Also questions the theory that referees don't make a decision and reply on VAR, but that is a different debate.

I watched it in a pub in Spain in the middle of Newcastle and Villa fans and the conclusion of everyone was that he would be walking. I said it straight away, but by the time the first replay had ended the Geordies were screaming off and the Villa fans had their heads in their hands.

 

[Runner Ref]

Yeah, but you are guessing either way. Plus here I think the immediate reaction of most people was red, it is only the multiple replays from several angles that call it into any question. Whether it was a guess or not, Taylor had to make a decision and I personally think he made the right one. Also questions the theory that referees don't make a decision and reply on VAR, but that is a different debate.

I watched it in a pub in Spain in the middle of Newcastle and Villa fans and the conclusion of everyone was that he would be walking. I said it straight away, but by the time the first replay had ended the Geordies were screaming off and the Villa fans had their heads in their hands.

I wouldn’t say the immediate reaction of most on here being red. As things stand, the poll is literally 50/50.

 

[Paul_10]

Yeah, but you are guessing either way. Plus here I think the immediate reaction of most people was red, it is only the multiple replays from several angles that call it into any question. Whether it was a guess or not, Taylor had to make a decision and I personally think he made the right one. Also questions the theory that referees don't make a decision and reply on VAR, but that is a different debate.

I watched it in a pub in Spain in the middle of Newcastle and Villa fans and the conclusion of everyone was that he would be walking. I said it straight away, but by the time the first replay had ended the Geordies were screaming off and the Villa fans had their heads in their hands.

On the first point, I always find Taylor is not afraid to produce a red if he feels he needs too, whether he made this decision purely on his own or with help we may never know. However I do suspect with the more recent PL referees who joined around 2018 so just before VAR was introduced are less likely to go red right away. I have my doubts if Peter Bankes was reffing that game he would of went red first but who knows.

I have went I didn't think it was a red because of the slip however I don't have any issues with Taylor thinking it's a red. A different VAR may of noticed that and may of recommended a review, of course Graham Scott may of noticed it and still stuck with the on field decision. Be interesting if this gets mentioned on the next mic'd up programme or not.

 

[NoFoulsAllowed]

I went no on the poll. As it looked like he was off balance and he tried to put his studs up to avoid the player.

However, what I didn't have was context. I guess if you think the player had lost his head and was just looking to leave one on. Then it changes the decision a little.

 

[BCMilan]

I went no on the poll. As it looked like he was off balance and he tried to put his studs up to avoid the player.

However, what I didn't have was context. I guess if you think the player had lost his head and was just looking to leave one on. Then it changes the decision a little.

Exactly ! There seems to be too many armchair decisions, rather than trusting the refs judgement. Taylor may well have heard and seen some banter between the two and knew Duran was about to lose his head

 

[Paul_10]

Found the audio interesting on this one with 4th official thinking it was accidental and the AR2 thinking it was reckless so only a yellow card.

We keep getting told a referee would describe an incident and announce their decision so a VAR can make a judgement on that but all Taylor said "he's holding somewhere else here" and "I'm going red card" so it's hard to know if the referee fully saw the studs going into the back or not because surely if he did, he would be quicker with making the decision?

Just another question, is the AR2 usually near the touchline or on the other side of the pitch because if it's near the touchline then he's probably a bit further away than the referee is and the ref had the best view. I do feel sometimes it's probably better if the AR don't say anything unless the referee requests for an opinion because it feels like they are trying to make the decision for him and it can look a little awkward the AR2 said all of that and the referee went with a totally different decision.

The VAR was very calm and described it well with it looking like a raking action with the studs so it would be interesting if he would of requested a review if the referee went yellow there.

 

[RustyRef]

Found the audio interesting on this one with 4th official thinking it was accidental and the AR2 thinking it was reckless so only a yellow card.

We keep getting told a referee would describe an incident and announce their decision so a VAR can make a judgement on that but all Taylor said "he's holding somewhere else here" and "I'm going red card" so it's hard to know if the referee fully saw the studs going into the back or not because surely if he did, he would be quicker with making the decision?

Just another question, is the AR2 usually near the touchline or on the other side of the pitch because if it's near the touchline then he's probably a bit further away than the referee is and the ref had the best view. I do feel sometimes it's probably better if the AR don't say anything unless the referee requests for an opinion because it feels like they are trying to make the decision for him and it can look a little awkward the AR2 said all of that and the referee went with a totally different decision.

The VAR was very calm and described it well with it looking like a raking action with the studs so it would be interesting if he would of requested a review if the referee went yellow there.

Going to have to ask the question, are you a referee? As the question is AR2 usually near the touchline has me a bit baffled, clearly both ARs are always near the touchline as that is literally their job. Apologies if I have misinterpreted, but I am genuinely baffled by this one.

 

[Paul_10]

Going to have to ask the question, are you a referee? As the question is AR2 usually near the touchline has me a bit baffled, clearly both ARs are always near the touchline as that is literally their job. Apologies if I have misinterpreted, but I am genuinely baffled by this one.

Definately not and I have said as such in previous times.

Must admit should of worded it better though, question I was asking is the AR2 usually on the side where the benches are because if so, surely his view is further away than from the position the referee was in and the angle would be fairly similar(e.g looking at it from behind). If it's on the other side of the pitch, and the assistant is giving information out, I can understand it more because it's a totally different view(a side on view).

Hopefully makes sense.

 

[es1]

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. I don't think AT comes across well in the discussions at all (whether you think he got the decision right or wrong).

Seems to me like he ignores advice from the match officials and makes his own decision (which he's obviously entitled to do) based on where the defender appeared to be injured (which seems a very dangerous thing to do).

 

[Paul_10]

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. I don't think AT comes across well in the discussions at all (whether you think he got the decision right or wrong).

Seems to me like he ignores advice from the match officials and makes his own decision (which he's obviously entitled to do) based on where the defender appeared to be injured (which seems a very dangerous thing to do).

From the pictures I have seen, it looked like the referee had the best view hence I questioned whether an assistant should be offering his opinion despite probably being further away but hearing the audio, I have no idea if the referee saw the studs going into the back or not.

The more I think about it, the more you do think he has gone from player reaction which I find amazing from such an experienced referee especially as 2 other officials thought it was accidental/reckless.

Needless to say the Villa fans are most unhappy but seeing some of them blaming the VAR aswell shows how their hatred for VAR can cloud their judgement. VAR was never going to overrule that when they saw the studs rake into the back in their own words. They didn't see the angle that TV showed and if they did, they may of seen it differently. I still think Duran was unfortunate and hearing the audio, he's probably even more unfortunate to be sent off!

 

[RustyRef]

Definately not and I have said as such in previous times.

Must admit should of worded it better though, question I was asking is the AR2 usually on the side where the benches are because if so, surely his view is further away than from the position the referee was in and the angle would be fairly similar(e.g looking at it from behind). If it's on the other side of the pitch, and the assistant is giving information out, I can understand it more because it's a totally different view(a side on view).

Hopefully makes sense.

AR1 is always bench side, AR2 far side. With the introduction of comms the ARs will often say what they saw, even if they are some distance away, as then they have officials from multiple angles giving an opinion. He doesn't have to go on that opinion and can choose to complete ignore it, but at least it has been offered.

I still think Duran knew exactly what he was doing here and the red card was absolutely correct, a view the appeals panel obviously agree with.

 

[ladbroke8745]

AR1 is always bench side, AR2 far side. With the introduction of comms the ARs will often say what they saw, even if they are some distance away, as then they have officials from multiple angles giving an opinion. He doesn't have to go on that opinion and can choose to complete ignore it, but at least it has been offered.

I still think Duran knew exactly what he was doing here and the red card was absolutely correct, a view the appeals panel obviously agree with.

Also helps that the 3 on field are typically put together every week, if I'm not mistaken.
Trust and experience comes with sticking together.

 

[GraemeS]

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. I don't think AT comes across well in the discussions at all (whether you think he got the decision right or wrong).

Seems to me like he ignores advice from the match officials and makes his own decision (which he's obviously entitled to do) based on where the defender appeared to be injured (which seems a very dangerous thing to do).

Agree with this completely. One official describes it as accidental, another clearly recommends a yellow card. AT then states he's holding "somewhere else" (implying groin) and seems to go red based purely on that.

Making a decision based on injury is wrong for a start. We can also see from replays that any contact is on the back of the player, so it seems plausible that the injury AT seems to react to hasn't happened.

But worst of all, because he also fails to describe that decision clearly, he doesn't give the VAR enough to go on. If he'd said "I'm going red based on this being a deliberate stamp/kick to the groin" (which I'm guessing is what he thinks happened) that would have been a clearly disprovable fact that would have resulted in him going to the monitor. If part of VAR is the being empowered to recommend reviews based on the referee seeing things incorrectly, the referee needs to do a much better job of describing what he's seen in the first place.