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Refereeing Decisions Explained

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RustyRef said:
Now confirmed that decisions will be regularly explained and discussed in a show shown on both Sky Sports and TNT Sports.

www.bbc.co.uk

Premier League: In-game audio of match officials to be shown on TV programme

In-game audio of match officials and VAR teams to be shown on TV programme featuring Howard Webb and Michael Owen.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Im going to be interested too see if referees really actually describe what they see to the VAR'S because on the first show, when Chris Kavanagh awarded the pen, he never described to the VAR what he saw and only explained his reasoning for the penalty AFTER he been to the monitor.

No doubt fans won't still be satisfied though even if they chose one of the howlers we seen so far this season.
 
Per Dale Johnson:

Incidents on the first VAR audio show tonight:

1) Man U v Wolves: Onana on Kalajdzic

2) Newcastle v Liverpool: Van Djik red

3) Sheff U v Man City: Egan handball

4) Man C v Fulham - Akanji offside

5) Arsenal v Man U - Havertz penalty decision

6) Burnley v Man C - Zaroury red
 
Just watched them through the sky sports app on my phone
 
My first observation is it’s too pally? “Brooksy”,” Tays”, ”mate”. i think it so much better to keep it professional, John, Anthony etc. In a serious work environment, I don’t refer to work colleagues with nicknames, e.g. in a customer meeting or presentation, I would in the canteen or making a coffee in the kitchen. Maybe that’s old school 😀

Secondly, John Brooks was very aggressive in sending off Van Dyke, “Free Kick, Go, Go, Go now”. Could he have positioned it better, “Sorry Virgil, check complete, it is correct, red card”.
 
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Ooh it’s good though. It’s the Howard show and Neville was busy so we are stuck with PPT’s own Michael Oven!

But it’s good and it’s the dodgy Akanji offside goal next!
 
Howard says… they was wrong… Akanji interfered! Should have been disallowed!

Now WTF didn’t they get that right. Akanji makes such an awkward movement including tryjng to kick the ball!!! How could a room of VARs mess that up! Nuts!
 
The Wolves one I find totally baffling how the VAR is leaning towards giving an on field review but because Hooper was adamant(maybe slightly arrogant) by saying "we don't give those" seems to give the VAR some doubt and find a reason to back the referees initial decision. This is something thats been speculated whether an inexperienced VAR would be brave enough to tell an experienced referee to overturn his decision yet Simon Hooper does not fall into that category but say Michael Oliver said something like that, then you can see why someone inexperienced would be reluctant to get involved.

The Man City one can be summed up as the AVAR influenced the VAR far too much there, that can't be right. You can work as a team but it felt too me Tony Harrington did not contribute much to that review at all.
 
Paul_10 said:
The Man City one can be summed up as the AVAR influenced the VAR far too much there, that can't be right. You can work as a team but it felt too me Tony Harrington did not contribute much to that review at all.
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Have to agree. Without the graphics on the screen, one might have assumed that the AVAR was in fact the VAR and vice versa. It was poor leadership from the VAR and ultimately led to an incorrect decision.
 
Paul_10 said:
The Wolves one I find totally baffling how the VAR is leaning towards giving an on field review but because Hooper was adamant(maybe slightly arrogant) by saying "we don't give those" seems to give the VAR some doubt and find a reason to back the referees initial decision. This is something thats been speculated whether an inexperienced VAR would be brave enough to tell an experienced referee to overturn his decision yet Simon Hooper does not fall into that category but say Michael Oliver said something like that, then you can see why someone inexperienced would be reluctant to get involved.
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Yeah, the thing about the Wolves one is that he's describing a textbook penalty offence. And then just somehow comes to the wrong conclusion, despite ticking every "foul" box one by one.

I also didn't like "we don't give those" - he's not thinking about the incident in isolation, he's thinking about some piece of training or feedback he's been given about what the expectations are. That's an over-coached response: if he'd just looked at the incident in isolation (and if the VAR hadn't heard the suggestion that there was some "other" reason not to give it), it probably would have ended in a better result.
 
I watched it. Although I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to tune in again, just because I didn't sense there's much for us Refs to learn from it
I like Howard Webb. Although the show is recorded and may have needed many many takes to get it right, HW is a good orator and an intelligent fella. he has a lot to offer the game. But it's wearying to hear about how VAR is gonna improve. A soundbite that's been rumbling around for best part of a decade without much substance. IMO, it hasn't improved, because there's insurmountable challenges associated with the dynamics of the game and subjectivity (amongst other things)
 
Big Cat said:
IMO, it hasn't improved, because there's insurmountable challenges associated with the dynamics of the game and subjectivity (amongst other things)
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And I think this is a bigger part of the problem than people seem to realise. The operation of and training for VAR seems overly complicated. The way “clear and obvious error” is judged provides more room for human error as the VAR is essentially making two judgements, both whether they agree with the on field decision, and if not whether they disagree enough to send the referee to the monitor. VAR is supposed to minimise human error but it actually does the opposite.

And as much as I like Howard Webb, this is where I have a bit of a problem with him. Instead of at least acknowledging some of these structural problems that still need resolving with VAR and the way he is training his officials to use it he often hangs referees out to dry to appease the public audience. I don’t have any problem with him being transparent but the frequency at which he apologises for decisions instead of sticking by his refs, at least in public, must suggest a wider problem.
 
Totally fair. I definitely remember feeling that suspending the referee for a week for the Wolves vs United incident felt a bit excessive. The VAR should have rescued him (and I actually feel a little less sorry for him now we've heard the audio!), but that doesn't mean it's not a perfectly reasonable human error to give the wrong decision in the first place. I don't like the idea of punishing referees for that.
 
GraemeS said:
Totally fair. I definitely remember feeling that suspending the referee for a week for the Wolves vs United incident felt a bit excessive. The VAR should have rescued him (and I actually feel a little less sorry for him now we've heard the audio!), but that doesn't mean it's not a perfectly reasonable human error to give the wrong decision in the first place. I don't like the idea of punishing referees for that.
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And yet would they have the courage to suspend Michael Oliver and his team for the error in the city game? Somehow I doubt it.

Was he actually suspended though or was it just coincidence that he wasn't picked and it just got assumed he must of been suspended?
 
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