Spurs vs Liverpool

[Anubis]

onky just seen the first few mins of highlights, there has been three quick breaks, the third being quoted as " only 16 mins played"

referee so far off the pace in each one.

on the Kane tackle, the referee is completely static. No doubts 4th ans/or var or man in the moon should be insisting this is a red but the referee has not done himself any favours.


updated edit, ref even flustered producing the red, some unconvincing decisions throughout, off the pace and weak body language.

To even think yellow for Robertsons?

Klopp, having already been booked, confronting ref at end, no action.

Quite a bewildering display, clearly not personal attack on the official(s) but based on those highlights, thats simply not an acceptable display by any means

 

[Tealeaf]

I saw Kane’s post match interview this morning. “I thought it was a good strong tackle”…

How often do we hear similar comments from players we sanction? You just know this is going to fuel some players at our level, using this as justification and motivation. Thank goodness it’s the Christmas shutdown.

 

[redref2005]

It was a shocking challenge from Kane and he should have been sent off. It don't matter if Robertson took evasive action to avoid the hit as it was plain wrong and anyone who thinks different needs to re-read the rules.

I wonder if Kane gets England Captains privilege as he seems to get away with all sorts (like the falling under people jumping to get penalties last season)?

 

[bloovee]

It was a shocking challenge from Kane and he should have been sent off. It don't matter if Robertson took evasive action to avoid the hit as it was plain wrong and anyone who thinks different needs to re-read the rules.

I wonder if Kane gets England Captains privilege as he seems to get away with all sorts (like the falling under people jumping to get penalties last season)?

I knew a Manchester City player in the days when you could (a mutual friend) and he came back from a game against Fulham and said George Cohen had committed a foul, and (he said) the ref said "England players don't foul"!

 

[Kent Ref]

I've just seen MOTD 2 to see the highlights as i don't have sky.

VAR needs to be sorted out. So many errors not put right by technology. I'm not sure who / what is to blame though.

 

[es1]

I've just seen MOTD 2 to see the highlights as i don't have sky.

VAR needs to be sorted out. So many errors not put right by technology. I'm not sure who / what is to blame though.

the process is what is to blame

football thinks it's above / better than other sports with it's video review process. that's what needs sorting as it's an absolute farce

 

[GraemeS]

the process is what is to blame

football thinks it's above / better than other sports with it's video review process. that's what needs sorting as it's an absolute farce

Exactly right. I've advocated a NFL-style challenge system on here before, but I genuinely don't understand why the starting point for VAR wasn't "let's use rugby's TMO system and see how that goes".

 

[one]

the process is what is to blame

football thinks it's above / better than other sports with it's video review process. that's what needs sorting as it's an absolute farce

Actually it's more of certain leagues thinking they are above everyone else. "I/we know better and I/we want to do it my/our way". Not a new thing in football though.

 

[Paul_10]

I can sort of see why in real time Tierney produced a yellow for Kane especially from his position but it should of been a red really. Was it a clear and obvious error though? I just think with this supposed high bar, it would be difficult for the VAR to overturn, I suspect if the ref gave no free kick/yellow card then the VAR may look at it differently as the refs description would be a clear and obvious error. Quite flawed admittedly.

I have to say the Robertson one was a really poor decision, complete aggressive kick with no attempt to play the ball, as we mention on here, it looks like a safe yellow to keep it 11v11.

 

[JamesL]

I can sort of see why in real time Tierney produced a yellow for Kane especially from his position but it should of been a red really. Was it a clear and obvious error though? I just think with this supposed high bar, it would be difficult for the VAR to overturn, I suspect if the ref gave no free kick/yellow card then the VAR may look at it differently as the refs description would be a clear and obvious error. Quite flawed admittedly.

I have to say the Robertson one was a really poor decision, complete aggressive kick with no attempt to play the ball, as we mention on here, it looks like a safe yellow to keep it 11v11.

If I was to give 1 piece of advice on this clip, particularly aimed at newer referees would be that everything about this challenge should have alarm bells ringing. Ball getting away from offender, running at full speed chasing said ball, towards an opponent.
This is exactly where we need to be switched on and move as quickly as we can to get the best viewing angle.

Yes we all get caught out from time to time and end up looking down the barrel and that is seemingly what might have happened here.

We take note, and we learn and we hope it doesn't happen in our games

 

[PinnerPaul]

Klopp for me is routinely an arse with referees. I won’t say too much more because maybe my dislike for him is caused by fan bias but it just always feels like he’s dissenting.

Today was bad though, his sarcastic bowing after he was booked was easily worthy of a second yellow, and his post match antics could’ve also seen him being dismissed.

I can see why Tierney didn’t, and fair play to him for the amount of dissent cautions he gave. Would be great to see a manager sent off for dissent though, would send a great statement.

I have no fan bias here and agree with you - he is always 'animated' on the touchline.

Surely it is up to the 4th official at this level to try to 'manage' in the first instance - very rarely seems to happen, but then we don't see a lot of what goes on there on the TV I guess?

 

[RobOda]

Quite a bewildering display, clearly not personal attack on the official(s)

He definitely had an off day.

I know fan consensus counts for very little, but on footballing forums, there's genuine posts considering it a bad day at the office rather than the usual "oh he's useless" nonsense. And that's unusual IMO.

 

[PinnerPaul]

View attachment 5349
Not a massive Walton fan, but here are his takes. The first paragraph is up for debate, but not a fan of the second paragraph at all. Gives me “He’s not that type of player” vibes which is slightly concerning

Diasagree - its not slightly concerning - its plain wrong!

Apart from having no bearing on whether a challenge 'uses excessive force and/or endangers the safety of an opponent' - how are us mere mortals supposed to know what 'type' of player we are dealing with, when evaluating these type of challenges?

 

[es1]

Exactly right. I've advocated a NFL-style challenge system on here before, but I genuinely don't understand why the starting point for VAR wasn't "let's use rugby's TMO system and see how that goes".

yes, yes and yes!

all we now have is refs backing up refs but not quite knowing when to back up the refs so sometimes the refs don't get backed up when they should be backed up and do get backed up when they shouldn't

think that makes sense

 

[GraemeS]

He definitely had an off day.

I know fan consensus counts for very little, but on footballing forums, there's genuine posts considering it a bad day at the office rather than the usual "oh he's useless" nonsense. And that's unusual IMO.

Each individual on-field decision I can pretty much see why the referee gave what he gave (although I'd be VERY disappointed to miss the penalty call even at my level) - the inexplicable bit is the VAR for me.

It's the inconsistency that stands out here, my feeling is that of the 3, Robertson's red was the least C&O wrong. So either set a high bar and say all 3 big calls don't meet that bar, or set the bar for interference at the level he did for the Robertson red and therefore get involved with all 3 decisions.

There are two possible explanations for the inconsistent bar IMO: the first I'm not going to state publicly, the second stinks of him realising at HT that he's missed 2 big calls and therefore being more determined not to miss the next big call - and it just being an unfortunate coincidence that the same team loses out on all 3 calls.

 

[Joshref]

Exactly right. I've advocated a NFL-style challenge system on here before, but I genuinely don't understand why the starting point for VAR wasn't "let's use rugby's TMO system and see how that goes".

I’m not a fan of TMO either. I don’t really watch rugby but I watched the last World Cup and it was terrible I thought. Maybe someone who watches it more often has different thoughts but as a casual fan, the stop start of TMO did nothing to drag me in. Still better than the current VAR though.

I think the challenge system is probably best

 

[RefIADad]

I have no fan bias here and agree with you - he is always 'animated' on the touchline.

Surely it is up to the 4th official at this level to try to 'manage' in the first instance - very rarely seems to happen, but then we don't see a lot of what goes on there on the TV I guess?

Full disclosure that, in general, I'm a pretty big Klopp fan. That being said, his behavior toward match officials really needs to change. I think he knows he's a high-profile manager that has a generally favorable perception in the general public, and I do think he uses that to his advantage when he acts like he does.

Different contexts, but we see this farther down the ladder as well. Certain managers or clubs know or feel like they can "get into the heads" of referees, so they'll act like that. Then, when a referee works a match who doesn't put up with the behavior, they try to turn it around and say, "Look - we don't have this happen with other referees, so this referee has to be the problem!"

When people watch Klopp and others act like they do on the sidelines, we know what happens at the lower levels . . .

 

[Anubis]

If I was to give 1 piece of advice on this clip, particularly aimed at newer referees would be that everything about this challenge should have alarm bells ringing. Ball getting away from offender, running at full speed chasing said ball, towards an opponent.
This is exactly where we need to be switched on and move as quickly as we can to get the best viewing angle.

Yes we all get caught out from time to time and end up looking down the barrel and that is seemingly what might have happened here.

We take note, and we learn and we hope it doesn't happen in our games

lets no excuse the 4th tho, He had the best view in the house.

 

[Joshref]

The Prem should take retrospective action for Klopp’s post match actions.

They won’t, but they should

 

[GraemeS]

The Prem should take retrospective action for Klopp’s post match actions.

They won’t, but they should

Ooof. I agree with you in isolation, but taking retrospective action against Klopp and presumably not taking retrospective action against Kane, or Tierney/Kavanaugh for their poor performances would certainly not calm the situation down!

The usual excuse is "the referee saw it and dealt with it on the day". Well, you could maybe say that wasn't the case with Kane and the Jota penalty, but it's difficult to use that excuse for dissent! Punishing Klopp would open up the can of worms around why Kane won't be retrospectively punished - or they can just use the usual excuse and try their best to quietly move on.