The Ref Stop

youth manager "i've never heard of sin bins".

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
I reffed an under 13's game today.

I gave a free-kick and a home player reacted by picking the ball up and slamming it into the ground.

I called him in and showed him the yellow card and pointed to the side.

The home manager said "have you sent him off?". I said "no, it's an 8 min sin bin".

The home manager said he's never heard of a sin bin and it's either a yellow card or it is not.

How can a manager not know this?
 
The Ref Stop
I always check at the start of games now .. it’s part of my pre- manager and captain talk
 
Kent Ref said:
I reffed an under 13's game today.

I gave a free-kick and a home player reacted by picking the ball up and slamming it into the ground.

I called him in and showed him the yellow card and pointed to the side.

The home manager said "have you sent him off?". I said "no, it's an 8 min sin bin".

The home manager said he's never heard of a sin bin and it's either a yellow card or it is not.

How can a manager not know this?
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Perhaps he is new in the role? A stand in maybe?

Perhaps he hasn't been in a game that has had dissent before?

There's lots of reasons why he might not have known, a chance to educate him duly taken ☺️
 
JamesL said:
Perhaps he hasn't been in a game that has had dissent before?
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^^I suspect this is the answer.^^ Or at least that he hasn't been in a game that has had dissent sanctioned before.

Obviously the coach should know anyway, but certainly in my experience (as a parent of two youth players), sanctions of any kind seem to be extremely rare in youth football, and the coach could easily have coached for several years without seeing any sanction at all, never mind a temporary dismissal.
I reckon I have seen my children play in at least 150 games at aged U12 or above since temporary dismissals have been in existence, and have seen a fair amount of sanctionable dissent, but have only seen a single temporary dismissal issued [just a few weeks ago in an U16 game (following repeated aggressive dissent throughout the game by the same player)].

It isn't just temporary dismissals though, it is all sanctions.
In the same 150+ games I think I have additionally seen 2 dismissals and at most 10 cautions for all reasons [playing and non-playing] (almost all of which were during matches at aged U15 or U16).

In watching over 500 games at U11 or younger I don't recall seeing a single caution or dismissal despite plenty of sanctionable behaviour.

For a larger sample: The junior club for which I volunteer (currently with 18 teams from U7 to U16) has received just 4 dismissals and 24 cautions in total in the past 9 years [figures from Whole Game System, so if any were not officially reported they will not be included]).
They are a well-run club with the right attitude and do weed out the problem players & coaches fairly effectively, but I don't think they are particularly unusual / an extreme outlier.

Just to be clear, the above is just to give some context and is not in any way intended to suggest that the OP shouldn't have sanctioned. Quite the contrary, I can't abide dissent and (coming from a rugby background) would like it more effectively dealt with at all levels of the game.
 
JamesL said:
Perhaps he is new in the role? A stand in maybe?

Perhaps he hasn't been in a game that has had dissent before?

There's lots of reasons why he might not have known, a chance to educate him duly taken ☺️
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He's managed the team for 4 years.

On the team sheet i got a mark of 10/100! They lost 6-0.
 
Yes, I wouldn’t worry about that at all. That just shows the league how sporting they are - they lost heavily and mark the referee low as a result.

Adult leagues are expected to explain low marks - usually either below 40 or below 60 - with a written report. I’m not sure about youth leagues because often the clubs find their own ref, and if it’s a coach then getting a low mark from the other team wouldn’t be unexpected.

As has been said, it’s uncommon for cards to be used, especially at the younger ages. I won’t do younger children because of this. Well done for not accepting this dissent. Hopefully he will learn a lesson from it.
 
Ref_Dad said:
In watching over 500 games at U11 or younger I don't recall seeing a single caution or dismissal despite plenty of sanctionable behaviour.
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My son has played from U8 up to (currently) U12 and I have only seen one card produced (sin bin with a minute left to play two weeks ago)

The ‘unwritten rule’ has always seemed to be that cards are used as a last resort until they go to 11v11 when cards become the norm.

I’m not saying it’s right, but as a parent it’s what I have experienced.
 
The mark written on the team sheet doesn't necessarily mean the mark you are getting. A lot of these team sheets are legacy, dating back to when clubs had to send them to the league after the game. Typically now they enter the referee mark onto Full Time after the game rather than sending in the team sheet, so sometimes the mark changes.
 
RustyRef said:
The mark written on the team sheet doesn't necessarily mean the mark you are getting. A lot of these team sheets are legacy, dating back to when clubs had to send them to the league after the game. Typically now they enter the referee mark onto Full Time after the game rather than sending in the team sheet, so sometimes the mark changes.
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On this league the ref has to sign each team's sheet and these are posted in to the league.
 
My understanding (for me) is the scores only seem to impact if you get involved in the finals (at my level). So I wouldn't worry too much.
The appointment secretary told me that he takes most ref scores with a pinch of salt especially after observing the match score. But over a full season they start to give an indication of someone's ability.
So idiots like that guy dropping a 10/100 when his team get gubbed 6-0 will be known. Guarantee if you had the worst match of the year, but his team won 6-0 you'd of gotten a 90/100.
 
Kent Ref said:
On this league the ref has to sign each team's sheet and these are posted in to the league.
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The 1990s are calling and want their league admin back!!!

One of the first things I did when taking on the role of Appts Sec for my local Sunday League and the Supply League after that was introduce online reporting. Keeps club expense and admin down, especially if you use the tools provided by The FA.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
The 1990s are calling and want their league admin back!!!

One of the first things I did when taking on the role of Appts Sec for my local Sunday League and the Supply League after that was introduce online reporting. Keeps club expense and admin down, especially if you use the tools provided by The FA.
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Same as me. Before Full Time was available I changed referee marking to an Excel sheet that was emailed to me, I had absolutely no interest in receiving 60 team sheets a week in the post and then manually noting down marks off of them.

It is frankly ridiculous that in this modern era a league is still insisting on posting team sheets. Especially with a single 1st class stamp now at over £1.
 
DazN said:
My son has played from U8 up to (currently) U12 and I have only seen one card produced (sin bin with a minute left to play two weeks ago)

The ‘unwritten rule’ has always seemed to be that cards are used as a last resort until they go to 11v11 when cards become the norm.

I’m not saying it’s right, but as a parent it’s what I have experienced.
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I would argue that that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Obviously cards are and should always be able to be used at any age and any level, but I personally think U12 and below is more about educating players on the game. This might come in the form of more explaining, even after the whistle has gone, more involvement with coaches and captains, that sort of thing. When I used to referee at that age group, when I very first started out, I would try and avoid showing physical cards to a player to avoid embarrassment and instead ask the coach to voluntarily to remove the player, which they did on every occasion willingly. This approach was supported by the league and praised overwhelmingly by spectators. At that level I gave more cautions and sending offs to coaches/managers than I did to players. Now I do U14 - Open Age and the amount of cards has of course increased hugely.
 
I've been coaching for two years and have never seen a card produced (my kids will be U11 next season).

I've been refereeing for 11 years and have never needed to produce a card anywhere below U13.

I have witnessed one game as a coach where I would definitely have issued a yellow card to a U10 player had I been refereeing. But the referee didn't even have a whistle (I had to lend him one) let alone cards.
 
Trip said:
I've been coaching for two years and have never seen a card produced (my kids will be U11 next season).

I've been refereeing for 11 years and have never needed to produce a card anywhere below U13.

I have witnessed one game as a coach where I would definitely have issued a yellow card to a U10 player had I been refereeing. But the referee didn't even have a whistle (I had to lend him one) let alone cards.
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My first caution came in my first game at...... U12s 👀 we've been on an upward trend from there 🤣
 
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