The Ref Stop

Your game

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Quick post to detail my games this weekend. Feel free to jump on and vent/discuss/details yours.

Saturday, step 6 middle (my 2nd middle at that level). Two top half teams very close in the table. A real stop start game on a very sticky pitch and with a strong wind making passing football almost impossible. Alot of added time due to a neck injury where a player has rolled of the pitch after tackling and in a freak accident has hit his head on the railings. Says he's fit to continue but very proactive management from the away manager and physio ensure hes substituted (he was clearly concussed). 0 yellows in the first half, it's under control and I'm doing well in keeping a potentially volatile game (localish derby and it all went off in the reverse fixture apparently). 3 yellows in the 2nd half but no bad tackles in the game and I'm happy to have the game under control with the away side 1-0. 97th minute (very lengthy injury earlier in the half when the away keeper goes down following a save with a freak back injury), clean tackle on the home teams 18 yard line (no appeals). Home team break and I hear shouts that there's a head injury from the away bench and look back with the tackled player still on the ground holding the back of his knee and definitely no head injury. I carry on and sods law the home team string a move together and equalise. I'm still unsure whether I shouldve brought it back as you could argue it could have been a serious one as the player is still hobbling in the bar after but I'm confident I'm certainly not wrong in allowing play to continue. It wasn't a head injury and didn't seem serious at the time. Anyway, I'm alerted by the AR that the away manager has thrown a load of C bombs at a home team coach so obviously he gets a red. Game restarts and then I blow 30 seconds later for full time. Manager does come in to apologise for his conduct after and we actually have a very sensible conversation about the goal and whilst we don't necessarily agree it was a very respectful conversation and well worth having (if it wasn't I'd have told him to go obviously).

Sunday. 2 of the top 3 teams in the adult Premier division. Home team have alot of players missing and are comfortably beaten 4-0. No cards, could've done it from the car park. Only issue in the game was a couple of spectators running up and down the line trying to film things for social media but a word with them and the manager about controlling them is respectfully recieved and acted upon. I was expecting a feisty encounter but it was as easy as it gets.
 
The Ref Stop
Had a nice weekend of football.

I think my final observation was Saturday, but I won't get the mark until later in the week. Debrief was fairly positive. Just have to wait and see.

Went on the line this afternoon, which was a nice change of pace, only my 2nd time on the line this season. Good referee in the middle, so I enjoyed it, despite the rain trying to spoil things.
 
On the line. Step 3.
Got absolutely lambasted by away defender about an "obvious offside" I'd missed.
Video highlights shows the player probably 3-4 yards onside as said defender hadn't counted on his left back being considerably deeper.
Reasonably happy with my weekends work in that regard.

To add a solid 72 from the observer.
 
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Incredibly dull game on the line, only goal was a long throw from away just before half time that got a lucky deflection and looped over the keeper, only incident of note was a contentious non-offside that I've discussed elsewhere. I prefer being in the middle over lines at the best of times, when it's cold, wet, boring and I'm doing more lines than middles in a season overall, it is starting to feel like a bit of a grind.

Fortunately, I've got a fairly busy non-football month, so only other fixture booked in is towards the end of the month (a line of course) - will see how that goes, but might ask to be taken off the panel for my local step 5/6 league for a bit so I can actually get out in the middle for a change.
 
150 mile round trip for me to the ground furthest away in my supply league. Highly exposed ground right up on a hill with the next bit of land to the south being Guernsey!

Very windy, but a good competitive game in the circumstances.

Long way to go, but a new ground ticked off my list, so very happy!
 
Top 2 @ Step 6 this weekend (Middle)
Either team could win the League and take the only automatic promotion spot
Talk of 500+ spectators from the home manager. Although there won't be that many, they did have 400 on Remembrance weekend last time I ref'ed there. Will be assessed and I'm sure the League will have someone in attendance
Guess I should stay out the pub on Freedey neet
 
At my favourite public school on their dream of a main pitch.

'Colts A' teams, so 16 year olds I think, played some good football, end to end and side to side on a big pitch, my knees told me it was big anyway!

NO irony in this post defender really did ask me this politely, "Excuse me sir, what was that foul for?" - Oh, if only it was like that every game.
 
Especially if once you tell them they're like "oh, fair enough ref!" :angel:
I had a contentious boys high school game last week, which I believe was the last game of the season for both teams. Collision involving the keeper, instant outrage from the attackers. “That was never a foul Ref!!” I said, ”he was offside and challenged the keeper.” “Oh. OK. My bad.” Trots off to position.
 
Quick post to detail my games this weekend. Feel free to jump on and vent/discuss/details yours.

Saturday, step 6 middle (my 2nd middle at that level). Two top half teams very close in the table. A real stop start game on a very sticky pitch and with a strong wind making passing football almost impossible. Alot of added time due to a neck injury where a player has rolled of the pitch after tackling and in a freak accident has hit his head on the railings. Says he's fit to continue but very proactive management from the away manager and physio ensure hes substituted (he was clearly concussed). 0 yellows in the first half, it's under control and I'm doing well in keeping a potentially volatile game (localish derby and it all went off in the reverse fixture apparently). 3 yellows in the 2nd half but no bad tackles in the game and I'm happy to have the game under control with the away side 1-0. 97th minute (very lengthy injury earlier in the half when the away keeper goes down following a save with a freak back injury), clean tackle on the home teams 18 yard line (no appeals). Home team break and I hear shouts that there's a head injury from the away bench and look back with the tackled player still on the ground holding the back of his knee and definitely no head injury. I carry on and sods law the home team string a move together and equalise. I'm still unsure whether I shouldve brought it back as you could argue it could have been a serious one as the player is still hobbling in the bar after but I'm confident I'm certainly not wrong in allowing play to continue. It wasn't a head injury and didn't seem serious at the time. Anyway, I'm alerted by the AR that the away manager has thrown a load of C bombs at a home team coach so obviously he gets a red. Game restarts and then I blow 30 seconds later for full time. Manager does come in to apologise for his conduct after and we actually have a very sensible conversation about the goal and whilst we don't necessarily agree it was a very respectful conversation and well worth having (if it wasn't I'd have told him to go obviously).

Sunday. 2 of the top 3 teams in the adult Premier division. Home team have alot of players missing and are comfortably beaten 4-0. No cards, could've done it from the car park. Only issue in the game was a couple of spectators running up and down the line trying to film things for social media but a word with them and the manager about controlling them is respectfully recieved and acted upon. I was expecting a feisty encounter but it was as easy as it gets.
Sounds good! Well done. I had 4 games this weekend. An u11’s friendly. A men’s league game- both Saturday. On Sunday I did a u14’s county cup quarter final and then my brothers game as their referee dropped out. 3 yellows and one sinbin in total.
 
Had 12th v 1st in our Step 5 division, wasn't the best game of football you'll ever watch but I was kept busy!

Goal for the home side in the 7th minute, cautions for the away left back and captain towards the end of the half, but the main talking point was me blowing for a foul on the home goalkeeper just as the ball was crossing the line. Of course according to the away side it was never a foul (and I'll admit that the two photos I've seen of the incident appear to show the attacker's arm closer to his body than I thought at the time, but not conclusive either way).

Second half, away team equalise on 52 minutes, caution for the home right back, and then on 65 minutes a long ball to the home winger sees me chasing play, but from behind I can see that the defender has barged the attacker over to stop him getting clear (cue the shouts of "you're allowed to shoulder charge ref" 🙄), so a caution for him, and a trip to the sin bin for one of his teammates who stood there sarcastically applauding me! Couple more cautions for the home team towards the end as they were defending their lead, and the game (eventually) finishes 2-1.

Unsurprisingly no handshakes from any of the away players. Then the away manager comes over, shakes the hand of one of my ARs, refuses to shake my hand and makes a few offensive and insulting comments, before eventually getting pulled away by one of his coaching staff. To top it off, in the bar afterwards he accuses me of being a cheat. He's repeated a few of the comments in a interview with a local paper, as well as claiming the his player was six feet away from the goalkeeper, despite the photos clearly showing there was contact between them 😂

Got the observer report through this morning - 72.45 👌
 
Had 12th v 1st in our Step 5 division, wasn't the best game of football you'll ever watch but I was kept busy!

Goal for the home side in the 7th minute, cautions for the away left back and captain towards the end of the half, but the main talking point was me blowing for a foul on the home goalkeeper just as the ball was crossing the line. Of course according to the away side it was never a foul (and I'll admit that the two photos I've seen of the incident appear to show the attacker's arm closer to his body than I thought at the time, but not conclusive either way).

Second half, away team equalise on 52 minutes, caution for the home right back, and then on 65 minutes a long ball to the home winger sees me chasing play, but from behind I can see that the defender has barged the attacker over to stop him getting clear (cue the shouts of "you're allowed to shoulder charge ref" 🙄), so a caution for him, and a trip to the sin bin for one of his teammates who stood there sarcastically applauding me! Couple more cautions for the home team towards the end as they were defending their lead, and the game (eventually) finishes 2-1.

Unsurprisingly no handshakes from any of the away players. Then the away manager comes over, shakes the hand of one of my ARs, refuses to shake my hand and makes a few offensive and insulting comments, before eventually getting pulled away by one of his coaching staff. To top it off, in the bar afterwards he accuses me of being a cheat. He's repeated a few of the comments in a interview with a local paper, as well as claiming the his player was six feet away from the goalkeeper, despite the photos clearly showing there was contact between them 😂

Got the observer report through this morning - 72.45 👌
The expectation in this country of post-game hobnobbing in the Board Room makes an impossible job idealistically laughable IMO
In what other capacity would someone be expected to stick their head in the lions mouth in this way, especially when the animal is at its most ravenous?

BTW, FWIW, in my three observed games this season, I'd say the appraisal I got from the teams afterwards (one game - awful reception, two others very enthusiastically received by both teams) was more in-line with my own values as a Referee than the observer's assessments. That's not to say that the observers were anything other than excellent. It's just that they're scoring the game according to many criteria that only Referee's value. These comments of mine are a generalisation however, but it means i'm increasingly a proponent of Club Marks (yes, I'm in a small minority, even though I've never had visibility of my marks), despite their obvious limitations. Hence why the two should (and are) taken into account
 
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The expectation in this country of post-game hobnobbing in the Board Room makes an impossible job idealistically laughable IMO
In what other capacity would someone be expected to stick their head in the lions mouth in this way, especially when the animal is at its most ravenous?

BTW, FWIW, in my three observed games this season, I'd say the appraisal I got from the teams afterwards (one game - awful reception, two others very enthusiastically received by both teams) was more in-line with my own values as a Referee than the observer's assessments. That's not to say that the observers were anything other than excellent. It's just that they're scoring the game according to many criteria that only Referee's value. These comments of mine are a generalisation however, but it means i'm increasingly a proponent of Club Marks (yes, I'm in a small minority, even though I've never had visibility of my marks), despite their obvious limitations. Hence why the two should (and are) taken into account
I think it's typically results vs method.

The club care about if you got an small set of individual decisions right (albiet with a healthy does of tinted glasses on what actually constitutes "right"). A good observer will basically ignore the direct question of right/wrong on decisions and instead try to see if you have the ability to consistently put yourself in the right position and apply a good understanding of law in the moment. On the assumption that doing those things well is more reproducible and will result in good decisions on a macro level regardless of each micro-decision is correct.

Obviously judging the effectiveness of these two types of feedback is harder to follow given a) biased managers/players and b) bad observers throwing off the data. But in theory, someone getting good club marks and bad observer marks might just be getting lucky or guessing well in a small sample set, which isn't a sustainable approach long-term.
 
Had 12th v 1st in our Step 5 division, wasn't the best game of football you'll ever watch but I was kept busy!

Goal for the home side in the 7th minute, cautions for the away left back and captain towards the end of the half, but the main talking point was me blowing for a foul on the home goalkeeper just as the ball was crossing the line. Of course according to the away side it was never a foul (and I'll admit that the two photos I've seen of the incident appear to show the attacker's arm closer to his body than I thought at the time, but not conclusive either way).

Second half, away team equalise on 52 minutes, caution for the home right back, and then on 65 minutes a long ball to the home winger sees me chasing play, but from behind I can see that the defender has barged the attacker over to stop him getting clear (cue the shouts of "you're allowed to shoulder charge ref" 🙄), so a caution for him, and a trip to the sin bin for one of his teammates who stood there sarcastically applauding me! Couple more cautions for the home team towards the end as they were defending their lead, and the game (eventually) finishes 2-1.

Unsurprisingly no handshakes from any of the away players. Then the away manager comes over, shakes the hand of one of my ARs, refuses to shake my hand and makes a few offensive and insulting comments, before eventually getting pulled away by one of his coaching staff. To top it off, in the bar afterwards he accuses me of being a cheat. He's repeated a few of the comments in a interview with a local paper, as well as claiming the his player was six feet away from the goalkeeper, despite the photos clearly showing there was contact between them 😂

Got the observer report through this morning - 72.45 👌
Did you red card the manager at the end?

No being confrontational, genuinely interested.
 
The expectation in this country of post-game hobnobbing in the Board Room makes an impossible job idealistically laughable IMO
In what other capacity would someone be expected to stick their head in the lions mouth in this way, especially when the animal is at its most ravenous?

BTW, FWIW, in my three observed games this season, I'd say the appraisal I got from the teams afterwards (one game - awful reception, two others very enthusiastically received by both teams) was more in-line with my own values as a Referee than the observer's assessments. That's not to say that the observers were anything other than excellent. It's just that they're scoring the game according to many criteria that only Referee's value. These comments of mine are a generalisation however, but it means i'm increasingly a proponent of Club Marks (yes, I'm in a small minority, even though I've never had visibility of my marks), despite their obvious limitations. Hence why the two should (and are) taken into account
It very much depends on the confidence of the referee. I never had a problem with the boardroom because more often than not players and managers weren't in there, and it let me have a sensible discussion about what had happened with the committee members. Usually they are far more subjective than the manager, often are ex-referees, and it let me get a "first strike" in to explain what I'd given and why before the manager gets in their ears telling them to mark me badly. Take one game as an example, where I sent a player off, their third red of the game, for calling my assistant a f***ing c***. This was on the far side of the stand but the same side as the dug out, so managers and coaches would have heard it but the committee wouldn't. The chairman asked me in the boardroom why I had sent the player off for calling the AR an idiot, which is what his manager told him had happened, so when I told him what had actually been said he couldn't have been more apologetic. He backed the other two sendings off, and as we were leaving he was laying into the player for his language and the manager for lying to him. Not going in the boardroom would have meant I had zero chance to say what actually happened and the chairman would probably have gone by the word of the manager. I know that I got a mark in the 90s from both teams for that game, not bad considering I sent 3 off from one team, but would I have got that without the boardroom discussion? I would hazard a guess of no chance.
 
It very much depends on the confidence of the referee. I never had a problem with the boardroom because more often than not players and managers weren't in there, and it let me have a sensible discussion about what had happened with the committee members. Usually they are far more subjective than the manager, often are ex-referees, and it let me get a "first strike" in to explain what I'd given and why before the manager gets in their ears telling them to mark me badly. Take one game as an example, where I sent a player off, their third red of the game, for calling my assistant a f***ing c***. This was on the far side of the stand but the same side as the dug out, so managers and coaches would have heard it but the committee wouldn't. The chairman asked me in the boardroom why I had sent the player off for calling the AR an idiot, which is what his manager told him had happened, so when I told him what had actually been said he couldn't have been more apologetic. He backed the other two sendings off, and as we were leaving he was laying into the player for his language and the manager for lying to him. Not going in the boardroom would have meant I had zero chance to say what actually happened and the chairman would probably have gone by the word of the manager. I know that I got a mark in the 90s from both teams for that game, not bad considering I sent 3 off from one team, but would I have got that without the boardroom discussion? I would hazard a guess of no chance.
Fair comments. Yes, I've no doubt there's many Committee Members out there who are less... shall we say 'emotive!' And yes, a civilised discussion could salvage or ensure good marks from them. On the other hand, I've already witnessed 'very awkward' post-match vibes when acting as AR and I had one game this season (R) after which there was no prospect of me getting close to the Committee Room!

My overall feeling however, is that the disconnect between Referees and the wider football-community is a two-way street. The Forum is awash with entirely dismissive attitudes when it comes to footballers, managers and so on. Is it any wonder the divide is so cavernous?

I don't know how the weightings work at higher levels, but there seems a lot of emphasis at 5-to-4 on competencies that are questionable in terms of their importance. I guess it's an apt stage in our development to demonstrate being a 'good allrounder'. Perhaps the weightings are balanced back towards the KMD's the clubs care about at 4-to-3 and above. I don't know (yet)

BTW no aspersions cast WRT @Alex Rush-Fear 's game. The use of the word 'cheat' kinda tells us the calibre of that numbnut manager
 
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