The Ref Stop

Women World Cup 2019

zarathustra said:
Commentators on the BBC did question whether some of the officials are good enough to be at the world cup, insinuating that maybe FIFA were so set on have all female match officials they selected people that aren't ready.
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Wouldn't have been an issue (imo) to have male referees there. I wouldn't mind seeing mixed teams on both world cups, provided they pass the fitness tests and all that. But I think if they went that way, we'd be having plenty of nonsense political articles on discrimination and equality issues from the media rags. There was already one ridiculous one from the Telegraph suggesting the use of VAR here was sexist, and rubbish articles like that really does ruin things for when there are genuine equality issues arising as no one will take it seriously.

I wonder if in future the way to do this is to basically say, if you referee men's club football you're eligible for the men's world cup and vice versa? Or is that already the case?
 
The Ref Stop
RobOda said:
I wonder if in future the way to do this is to basically say, if you referee men's club football you're eligible for the men's world cup and vice versa? Or is that already the case?
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I've seen Bibiana Steinhaus (now referees in the Bundesliga) referee at this WC, so she routinely does mens and is here. Sure there are others too
 
alexgr said:
I've seen Bibiana Steinhaus (now referees in the Bundesliga) referee at this WC, so she routinely does mens and is here. Sure there are others too
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Sian Massey ARs the men and is ARing here.
I think we would struggle to send refs as the vast majority (probably all) out WSL refs have full time jobs to pay the bills and would be difficult to get the time off to go out and ref the tournament.
The ref I did a WSL game was on fifa list for AR but was a level 3 so it defi itely wouldnt be paying the bills.
 
socal lurker said:
Keep in mind that FIFA did not want to use VAR, presumably at least in part because the refs and ARs would have no experience with it. The players objected that they were being treated differently from men, and FIFA agreed to use it.
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A case of, "be careful what you wish for," perhaps?
 
Why are there no male referees in the tournament? Ultimately, they referee to a higher standard and most importantly, have VAR experience. Even if you had a male AR with 2 women, or vice versa just to help along the process, surely that would be beneficial to the overall learning curve that VAR brings
 
QuaverRef said:
Why are there no male referees in the tournament? Ultimately, they referee to a higher standard and most importantly, have VAR experience. Even if you had a male AR with 2 women, or vice versa just to help along the process, surely that would be beneficial to the overall learning curve that VAR brings
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Someone else might correct me, but I believe they have male officials in the VAR booth as between the mens world cup and various domestic leagues, there are far more male refs with VAR experience then female officials.

As to why there aren't men in the middle, I suspect that's mainly down to the optics of it. How justified you think that reason is probably depends more on your political leanings than anything else!
 
QuaverRef said:
Why are there no male referees in the tournament? Ultimately, they referee to a higher standard and most importantly, have VAR experience. Even if you had a male AR with 2 women, or vice versa just to help along the process, surely that would be beneficial to the overall learning curve that VAR brings
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It's been female referees only since 1999.
 
cwyeary said:
It's been female referees only since 1999.
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Surely its time that their gender stereotypes were broken down and it should be open to all referees regardless of anything! If you're good enough you'll have a chance and you won't fail due to gender profiling and discrimination!!! aren't their laws preventing this??
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Surely its time that their gender stereotypes were broken down and it should be open to all referees regardless of anything! If you're good enough you'll have a chance and you won't fail due to gender profiling and discrimination!!! aren't their laws preventing this??
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Ignoring the fact that all sport is split along gender lines, that's not how it works and I don't think you really believe it does either.

Women's football (and especially the appeal for a woman to become a referee) is miles behind where it is in the mens game. If you enforce "everyone is equal"-style equality, all you do is maintain the status quo. If you want the two sports to approach equality, you have to give boosts to the one that's behind - in this case, ensuring that the face of officiating in the WWC is female.

It's the same as banning all-male writing rooms in TV that came out a few weeks ago. That's not giving women jobs they don't deserve, it's creating an opportunity that wouldn't exist if you just drop the established men into those jobs without thinking.
 
zarathustra said:
And there in lies the problem.

If they send men to referee the women's world cup people will rightly ask how is that fair on the female match officials who've worked their entire careers to try and get to that point, only to be pipped at the post by a man who doesn't referee any women's football.

But at the same time, people will rightly complain if the standard of refereeing is not up to scratch, which, judging by last night, it clearly isn't in some cases.

I think the development of female match officials at the highest level is something that is going to need more attention as the women's game improves.

How many female officials do we have in the Premier League, Championship, League 1, or League 2?

Sian Massey Ellis is an AR in the EPL, but how many others, maybe one or to in the Football League.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...male-referees-officiate-Womens-World-Cup.html
An article in todays' Daily Mail - No I didn't have access to it wen I wrote my post (#71 on other thread ).

Last season, Sian was the only EPL AR. But on EFL list there was 3:
ASPINALL, Natalie​
BYRNE, Helen​
RASHID, Lisa (who is also at the WWC as a AR)​
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Surely its time that their gender stereotypes were broken down and it should be open to all referees regardless of anything! If you're good enough you'll have a chance and you won't fail due to gender profiling and discrimination!!! aren't their laws preventing this??
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Sounds good in theory however all referees have to progress through grassroots football where discrimination is rife (but isn't talked about). Female referees find it difficult to gain top club marks which hinders promotion hopes. Football also finds it difficult to retain female referees.

As well as being mostly male, this could also explain why top referees (in the English system) are disproportionately white.
 
The Referee said:
Sounds good in theory however all referees have to progress through grassroots football where discrimination is rife (but isn't talked about). Female referees find it difficult to gain top club marks which hinders promotion hopes. Football also finds it difficult to retain female referees.

As well as being mostly male, this could also explain why top referees (in the English system) are disproportionately white.
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That may be the case for club marks but, at least where I am, the progression path is much smoother for a female junior referee compared to a male junior referee of the same ability. Nothing sinister behind it, it has simply to do with shortage of female referees needed at higher levels and any female referee of decent ability will get a accelerated development pathway without too many others to compete against.

As for your second paragraph I think (I very much hope) that is not the reason and it is a much more complex issue than that. It can have thread of its own
 
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