The Ref Stop

Wigan - Man City

JD1 said:
But what is there in the tackle that meets the criteria of being a straight red?

Reckless and a yellow - understandable conclusion

Dangerous, violent or use of excessive force? I don't see it personally.
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You missed 'Endangers safety of an opponent' - which you can certainly say it did

Nalbi said:
I agree RC: out of control and potentionally endangering the safety of the opponent. If a similar tackle was on a city player; pep would be spitting fire to get the Wigan player off!! Don't know why he was so animated!
Here's the clip for reference
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TBH I think he was annoyed at Wigan manager so obviously and loudly calling for a red. Ref pulling out the yellow card first can't have helped!

Matthew said:
No issue with the red, needless challenge. Taylor has created that reaction by going for a yellow and appearing to change his mind, never looks good.

Pep's reaction is perfectly understandable. Not a single one of the disgusting challenges on City players has been correctly punished. All well and good protecting players, but oddly it seems to be open season on our players; this foul on Aguero in the same game for example, which wasn't even a yellow:
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Surprised a referee should think that. As a neutral, surely Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means its obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round. Agree some challenges have been 'under' punished.

But you can't seriously think that the officials get together and say 'Don't forget, its open season on Man City this week'

Watch this for a good example of 'Endangers Safety' - very little actual contact, but still a red
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...763384F976BFBE337FBE763384F976BFBE3&FORM=VIRE
2' 05' is where you'll find it
 
The Ref Stop
PinnerPaul said:
....

Surprised a referee should think that. As a neutral, surely Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means its obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round. Agree some challenges have been 'under' punished.

But you can't seriously think that the officials get together and say 'Don't forget, its open season on Man City this week'
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Should think what? That some challenges (double figures this season if you count the two from Wigan players on Monday) have been "under" punished (one or two totally unpunished with not even a free kick). That's hardly worth any argument, it's obvious.

As PGMOL meetings are secret, you must wonder whether they don't at least think "You know, our foul recognition for fouls against City needs a lot of work". Then Pep makes a fuss, a City player does the sort of tackle that against City would (on precedent this season) be a yellow (maybe), the referee (not a United fan of course) gets the yellow card out and then (after an age, not immediately) gets a voice in his ear to make it a red.

Now I'm admittedly biased, but I'm surprised a referee should take it for granted that "Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means it's obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round". That's precisely the problem - PGMOL referees expecting City players to be fouled and apparently making allowances for it. No wonder none of them is going to the World Cup this summer.
 
Nobody is going because Oliver and Taylor have only just went to elite 1 and Clattenburg dominated all the finals as little as, two years ago?

The above rant for me belongs on a fan page and not a referee resource page. You seem to even be implying Taylor send the City guy off because he might folkow Utd. Top flight referees do not operate like that. Small minded creatures do. Thats a disgrace to read such things on this site.
 
bloovee said:
Should think what? That some challenges (double figures this season if you count the two from Wigan players on Monday) have been "under" punished (one or two totally unpunished with not even a free kick). That's hardly worth any argument, it's obvious.

As PGMOL meetings are secret, you must wonder whether they don't at least think "You know, our foul recognition for fouls against City needs a lot of work". Then Pep makes a fuss, a City player does the sort of tackle that against City would (on precedent this season) be a yellow (maybe), the referee (not a United fan of course) gets the yellow card out and then (after an age, not immediately) gets a voice in his ear to make it a red.

Now I'm admittedly biased, but I'm surprised a referee should take it for granted that "Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means it's obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round". That's precisely the problem - PGMOL referees expecting City players to be fouled and apparently making allowances for it. No wonder none of them is going to the World Cup this summer.
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My God, you come up with some right tripe with these City conspiracies.
 
PinnerPaul said:
You missed 'Endangers safety of an opponent' - which you can certainly say it did



TBH I think he was annoyed at Wigan manager so obviously and loudly calling for a red. Ref pulling out the yellow card first can't have helped!



Surprised a referee should think that. As a neutral, surely Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means its obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round. Agree some challenges have been 'under' punished.

But you can't seriously think that the officials get together and say 'Don't forget, its open season on Man City this week'

Watch this for a good example of 'Endangers Safety' - very little actual contact, but still a red
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...763384F976BFBE337FBE763384F976BFBE3&FORM=VIRE
2' 05' is where you'll find it
Click to expand...
PinnerPaul said:
You missed 'Endangers safety of an opponent' - which you can certainly say it did



TBH I think he was annoyed at Wigan manager so obviously and loudly calling for a red. Ref pulling out the yellow card first can't have helped!



Surprised a referee should think that. As a neutral, surely Man City's total domination of possession and territorial advantage in almost every game means its obvious that their players are going to be fouled more than the other way round. Agree some challenges have been 'under' punished.

But you can't seriously think that the officials get together and say 'Don't forget, its open season on Man City this week'

Watch this for a good example of 'Endangers Safety' - very little actual contact, but still a red
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...763384F976BFBE337FBE763384F976BFBE3&FORM=VIRE
2' 05' is where you'll find it
Click to expand...

That's quite the leap you've taken; where did I say that officials are deliberately not punishing challenges on City players?

The point is that City have been on the wrong end of some disgusting challenges this season and, for whatever reason, they are not being spotted. I think it stems from the poor refereeing standards overall, but that's a different issue.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Nobody is going because Oliver and Taylor have only just went to elite 1 and Clattenburg dominated all the finals as little as, two years ago?

The above rant for me belongs on a fan page and not a referee resource page. You seem to even be implying Taylor send the City guy off because he might folkow Utd. Top flight referees do not operate like that. Small minded creatures do. Thats a disgrace to read such things on this site.
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Took the words right out of my mouth there. The big nonsense in that argument is that referees 'think' City players will be fouled more.

Its just a FACT - in most matches the better team with the most possession is going to get fouled more - nothing to do with City, it applies in the thousands of other matches that take place every week! I can go on 'my' favourite QPR fan site and read rants like this every week, like you I find it 'surprising' to find such nonsense posted on here. I'll steer clear of discussing City games in future I think.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Took the words right out of my mouth there. The big nonsense in that argument is that referees 'think' City players will be fouled more.

Its just a FACT - in most matches the better team with the most possession is going to get fouled more - nothing to do with City, it applies in the thousands of other matches that take place every week! I can go on 'my' favourite QPR fan site and read rants like this every week, like you I find it 'surprising' to find such nonsense posted on here. I'll steer clear of discussing City games in future I think.
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It will be interesting to see if there is any data or actual stats to back up this fact.
That is, does the percentage of possession match the percentage of fouls for in possession based games?
I'm not of a fan of city or otherwise but I think unless it's backed up its just an opinion just like the other side of the argument.

My thoughts are most teams with high possession spend most of their possession unchallenged in the back so it shouldn't impact foul count that much.
 
one said:
It will be interesting to see if there is any data or actual stats to back up this fact.
That is, does the percentage of possession match the percentage of fouls for in possession based games?
I'm not of a fan of city or otherwise but I think unless it's backed up its just an opinion just like the other side of the argument.

My thoughts are most teams with high possession spend most of their possession unchallenged in the back so it shouldn't impact foul count that much.
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The stats that I have to hand, or the ones I could find most quickly is that in the 6 up coming PL matches I looked at containing strong favourites the 'bookings index' spread betting ALWAYS expects the underdogs to get more cards than the favourites.
 
PinnerPaul said:
The stats that I have to hand, or the ones I could find most quickly is that in the 6 up coming PL matches I looked at containing strong favourites the 'bookings index' spread betting ALWAYS expects the underdogs to get more cards than the favourites.
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No the one I was looking for but nonetheless, if Man City claim their opponents are not getting enough cards (assuming less than Man City) wouldn't that mean the have a good point?
 
Interesting point a few posts ago about the need for signals - and the good book not having many and stating that signals should not be used to explain decisions.

This is an additional problem for VAR situations, but also a problem for official-to-official-to-crowd communication in quite a few circumstances. We all use signals to explain decisions.

The IFAB should tidy this up. Either give us a supplementary set of signals (I am not in favour of NFL type signals in footy), or clear up in the laws with something that falls between "body language" and the book's signals, something like "natural gestures.."
 
one said:
No the one I was looking for but nonetheless, if Man City claim their opponents are not getting enough cards (assuming less than Man City) wouldn't that mean the have a good point?
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IF City's opponent's were consistently coming in under the spread and under what other teams starting at same odds were 'earning' in cards, yes they would - but I doubt Pep and City fans' perceptions are based on stats!
 
That sinking feeling when you thought you were getting a quad bike and the best you can get now is a Reliant Robin!
 
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