Which was first, Chicken or egg (LOTG version)

[Peter Grove]

Team playing with seven players. A player is assessed for injury and has to leave the FOP. He can't enter the FOP before the game restarts. They game can't restart until he enters the FOP.

This was a question in the 2006 FIFA Q&A. The answer was given as follows.

A player, from a team with only seven players, leaves the field of play to receive medical attention. What action does the referee take?
The match will stop until this player has received treatment and returns to the field of play. If he is unable to return, the match is abandoned ...

 

[GraemeS]

At my level nobody ever left the pitch after treatment on the pitch unless they had to recover or be treated on the side or had to be subbed. TBF most didn’t have any decent first aid box so to call it treatment was stretching it! At the Dog & Duck level it’s a pretty pointless exercise as 22 men and his dog aren’t expecting this! Granted up the levels I’ve no problem with it’s implimentation but it never happened once the formal way except semis and finals of course!

If I didn't already know that you haven't attempted promotion, this post would be a dead giveaway. I got pulled up for it on a few assessments because I thought exactly the same as you - but grudgingly, I started asking players to leave the pitch after treatment because that's what was expected of me. And to my surprise, it works absolutely fine!

The injured players actually do expect it and don't complain (as long as you remember to wave them on promptly!), and any suggestion of time wasting is easily dismissed. If you make a big show of stopping your watch and then follow up by insisting the injured player leaves the pitch, opponents are usually satisfied that the time wasting is being accounted for. Where as when I used to let treatment take place on the pitch, you would have 11 members of the losing team getting angsty and wound up as they perceive that the the treatment takes more and more time away from their attempted comeback. Which could easily lead to an over-exuberant tackle once play restarts.

 

[JamesL]

If I didn't already know that you haven't attempted promotion, this post would be a dead giveaway. I got pulled up for it on a few assessments because I thought exactly the same as you - but grudgingly, I started asking players to leave the pitch after treatment because that's what was expected of me. And to my surprise, it works absolutely fine!

The injured players actually do expect it and don't complain (as long as you remember to wave them on promptly!), and any suggestion of time wasting is easily dismissed. If you make a big show of stopping your watch and then follow up by insisting the injured player leaves the pitch, opponents are usually satisfied that the time wasting is being accounted for. Where as when I used to let treatment take place on the pitch, you would have 11 members of the losing team getting angsty and wound up as they perceive that the the treatment takes more and more time away from their attempted comeback. Which could easily lead to an over-exuberant tackle once play restarts.

Great post Graeme.
Anyone going for promotion needs to remember that they are being judged on whether they are ready for the next level.
Blatantly ignoring lotg is a sure fire way to kill your applocation of law and be marked below standard expected.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I also put players off at all 11 a sides, not friendlies though. Very rare you get anybody making a big deal of it.

I keep it simple, I say, "coach on? player off?". I dont make it a "me" thing but, simply as above, a LOTG that gets followed.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

If I didn't already know that you haven't attempted promotion, this post would be a dead giveaway. I got pulled up for it on a few assessments because I thought exactly the same as you - but grudgingly, I started asking players to leave the pitch after treatment because that's what was expected of me. And to my surprise, it works absolutely fine!

The injured players actually do expect it and don't complain (as long as you remember to wave them on promptly!), and any suggestion of time wasting is easily dismissed. If you make a big show of stopping your watch and then follow up by insisting the injured player leaves the pitch, opponents are usually satisfied that the time wasting is being accounted for. Where as when I used to let treatment take place on the pitch, you would have 11 members of the losing team getting angsty and wound up as they perceive that the the treatment takes more and more time away from their attempted comeback. Which could easily lead to an over-exuberant tackle once play restarts.

If you knew my personal situation you’d 100% understand my static position with regards to any promotion. Of course I knew the drill but like lots of things when it doesn’t really matter it gets overlooked, I’d of p£&@@ed a 3-4 no problems had I towed the line and had the inclination or belief in what I was in it for. Refereeing needed me more than I needed it!! Glad I never went anywhere but I’ve also seen and heard of lads that did and, as I was told, none of them laced my boots at the standard I was at. Good luck to all in their quests to improve or move up but it wasn’t for me. The local FA can’t even lie and keep a straight face and they couldn’t run a bath 5 years ago! I’ve moved on in refereeing and I’m currently negotiating moving on in life too! Watch this space!

On the OP, if you’re 100% serious about advancement then you have to do all the cerimonial stuff to the letter. Those damn assessors will be sharpening their critiques if you don’t!

 

[GraemeS]

If you knew my personal situation you’d 100% understand my static position with regards to any promotion. Of course I knew the drill but like lots of things when it doesn’t really matter it gets overlooked, I’d of p£&@@ed a 3-4 no problems had I towed the line and had the inclination or belief in what I was in it for. Refereeing needed me more than I needed it!! Glad I never went anywhere but I’ve also seen and heard of lads that did and, as I was told, none of them laced my boots at the standard I was at. Good luck to all in their quests to improve or move up but it wasn’t for me. The local FA can’t even lie and keep a straight face and they couldn’t run a bath 5 years ago! I’ve moved on in refereeing and I’m currently negotiating moving on in life too! Watch this space!

On the OP, if you’re 100% serious about advancement then you have to do all the cerimonial stuff to the letter. Those damn assessors will be sharpening their critiques if you don’t!

I absolutely wasn't attempting to belittle you previously - I certainly accept that promotion isn't for everyone, I just suggested that had you done promotion, you wouldn't be advising others to not worry about this kind of detail. Because anyone who had been assessed would know that these things do matter, both to assessors and to your ability to sell confidence in your decisions. Players know they're supposed to leave the pitch after an injury - if they see a ref who appears not to know that's the law, they might start to wonder what else he doesn't know as well.

But this is an interesting post. It's nice to have a bit of confidence, and I certainly remember being an unassessed L7 and assuming I'd be great at 4 and above. But if you really think you would have pissed 4-3 without a solid grounding in the basics of the LOTG and experience in applying it, then I'd have to politely suggest that some of that confidence may be a little misplaced. This stuff matters, and you can't just turn it on or off at will and expect to get it right when you need to.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I absolutely wasn't attempting to belittle you previously - I certainly accept that promotion isn't for everyone, I just suggested that had you done promotion, you wouldn't be advising others to not worry about this kind of detail. Because anyone who had been assessed would know that these things do matter, both to assessors and to your ability to sell confidence in your decisions. Players know they're supposed to leave the pitch after an injury - if they see a ref who appears not to know that's the law, they might start to wonder what else he doesn't know as well.

But this is an interesting post. It's nice to have a bit of confidence, and I certainly remember being an unassessed L7 and assuming I'd be great at 4 and above. But if you really think you would have pissed 4-3 without a solid grounding in the basics of the LOTG and experience in applying it, then I'd have to politely suggest that some of that confidence may be a little misplaced. This stuff matters, and you can't just turn it on or off at will and expect to get it right when you need to.

I'd of failed because the ceremonial stuff and sniffing up to the FA wasn't for me. I 100% accept that, that said, as a referee I'd of easily done 3-4!!
Call it over confidence, call it what you like, its water under the bridge now. Yes, that stuff matters to somebody, just not me!! I didn't take it seriously enough to go forward, I own three companies, it was a hobby, but if you think a pretty strip, clean boots, you can run around a track at a jog, be available and make sure your shirt tucked in automatically qualifies somebody as a better referee that I was then I beg to differ. Peace!!!

 

[Tino Best]

I agree with both points of views. I think SF has a valid point and if it is consistent at Dog and Duck level it could work. I also agree with JamesL as well. I ref for a hobby not looking for promotion am I a good ref. Not well liked at youth level as I caution, but get the challenging games from my FA, always senior youth 9 times out of 10. I was an assistant to a young ref for a cup final couple of weeks ago. I couldn't hear his whistle, a poor pre match breif to myself and the other officials, no whistle for subs. Academy ref. Shirt was tucked in and the winter gloves on a very hot day in May were very smart as well. I offered advice about subs and whistle blowing at ht but my advice was ignored. I think the 12 year olds were made to leave the pitch though. He did book a 12 year old and was then shouted at by the coach you can't book at under 12. Booking was justified but got the wrong player it turned out. Oops!

 

[zarathustra]

I think in this instant I would employ some common sense, and make a show of them going off but allowing th m back on before restarting play.

It’s a tricky one as either not making them go off, or making them leave and reenter before play has restarted would be incorrect in law, but so would starting the game if one team have less than 7 players.

I’d be interested to here what one of the resident observers has to say.

 

[Peter Grove]

I think in this instant I would employ some common sense, and make a show of them going off but allowing th m back on before restarting play.

It’s a tricky one as either not making them go off, or making them leave and reenter before play has restarted would be incorrect in law, but so would starting the game if one team have less than 7 players.

I’d be interested to here what one of the resident observers has to say.

I know we can't take everything from the old Q&A's as gospel (and certainly not when subsequent laws changes invalidate their answers) but in this case, what's wrong with going with the 2006 ruling that I quoted earlier? It still makes as much sense as anything else as far as I can tell and has the added advantage of having been issued from an official, authoritative source.