Where does handball start for you?

[ladbroke8745]

Simply put, where does handball start for you and why?
Reason I ask is because I was pulled up on it recently and was told what I thought was right was wrong.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

3 for me.

1 and 2 are shoulder, arm starts just above the elbow

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Move your arm without moving the rest of your body. Which part moves and which doesn't?
1 us shoulder. 3 is arm. 2 could be either, it's on the edge and the image would need to be more specific.
Location of the shirt seam is a fair guideline... Although manner of playing the ball might have an impact

 

[ladbroke8745]

I was told that it's 1. Effectively the very first part where the shoulder joint starts.
For me that is shoulder and wouldn't give handball for it hitting there.
Plus if you are giving handball you have to be 100% certain it didn't hit the chest area of that part of the body and that for me is why I'd go with 2 at best, definitely 3.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

If somebody told you that 1 is the arm they're wrong.. Was it an assessor? Some of them don't know what they're talking about. No different to some referees.

 

[ladbroke8745]

If somebody told you that 1 is the arm they're wrong.. Was it an assessor? Some of them don't know what they're talking about. No different to some referees.

It was.

 

[Superhuman568]

i believe if we as referees are expected to punish from shoulder down to finger tips then the name of the law needs to be changed from "handball". For people that don't understand the LOTG as we do, it seem's unjust for us to punish when it hits above the elbow, i'm always getting shouts about the ball never making contact with the hand or lower arm.

however i believe it would be below 3 for me to call it

 

[Ciley Myrus]

if someone told you 1 they need referred to the Dem Bones song and I would instantly dismiss anything else their report had to say also

 

[Sheffields Finest]

It starts when I think it’s deliberate! It can hit where it wants, I don’t care.... too many silly calls on this!

 

[RobOda]

I cannot imagine how shouldering the ball would be a handball offence tbh. Anything hitting the 1 area I'm not interested in.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

i believe if we as referees are expected to punish from shoulder down to finger tips then the name of the law needs to be changed from "handball". For people that don't understand the LOTG as we do, it seem's unjust for us to punish when it hits above the elbow, i'm always getting shouts about the ball never making contact with the hand or lower arm.

however i believe it would be below 3 for me to call it

You should probably review Law 12 if that's your approach.... It definitely includes arm

 

[Superhuman568]

You should probably review Law 12 if that's your approach.... It definitely includes arm

i was making a point about people not knowing the law and it being an issue with how others regard the decisions we make because of the term "handball", for instance if you watch champions league football and the referee calls a handball for anything above the elbow, pundits will say it was never a hand ball, or the famous "that can't be a handball", i know what the law says i think you just missed my point

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

well, you did say at the end that it would need to be below 3 for you to call it....

 

[one]

That diagram in OP is actually a good one in the way 2 is written. The number '2' has a diagonal line in the middle of it (and two horizontal lines on top and bottom). Extend the straight diagonal line on both ends. For me, anything to the right and below that line is handball.

That diagonal line changes its angle depending on how the arm is held but it always starts from the corner of the armpit. For example it becomes a vertical line from the armpit if the arm is held in a 90 degree angle.

 

[Superhuman568]

well, you did say at the end that it would need to be below 3 for you to call it....

I did, that's because we're not premier League referees, if you were to make a call at grass roots where the ball hits 1/2 then it's a bigger headache than its worth because as I said nobody understands the laws as we do, I think that's a fair compromise considering 3 is well above the elbow anyway

 

[alexgr]

I did, that's because we're not premier League referees, if you were to make a call at grass roots where the ball hits 1/2 then it's a bigger headache than its worth because as I said nobody understands the laws as we do, I think that's a fair compromise considering 3 is well above the elbow anyway

Really? I routinely call 2 and I've never had even the slightest moan. Players are stupid, granted, but they know they can't handle the ball with the upper part of their arm.

 

[Kes]

Arm is arm to me.

Hand is hand.

Anything else is "chest".

I've always found limb recognition fairly straightforward.

 

[Superhuman568]

Really? I routinely call 2 and I've never had even the slightest moan. Players are stupid, granted, but they know they can't handle the ball with the upper part of their arm.

I'm not calling players stupid by any means, we only meet these people for 90 minutes or so, I wouldn't judge a players intelligence on those 90 minutes, what I'm pointing out is their understanding of the LOTG, if you've had good players who accept number 2 as handball then that's good, however I've had it both ways and I think 3 is a good compromise as I said.

 

[spuddy1878]

Can i say 2 and a half ?

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Jeremy Beadle was a decent footballer back in the day, but his was always close to giving away handball......! But on the other hand he always seemed to get away with it!