RefSix

What do you give?

ladbroke8745

Well-Known Member
#4
But surely offside is when the player becomes active ie by playing the ball.
The ball was played towards her but she could easily have left/ignored the ball which would make her not offside, something we are told to do. She is taken out before she has the opportunity to have left it or played it.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#5
But surely offside is when the player becomes active ie by playing the ball.
The ball was played towards her but she could easily have left/ignored the ball which would make her not offside, something we are told to do. She is taken out before she has the opportunity to have left it or played it.
If she is in the process of touching the ball, if she doesnt, and theres no foul we are in the realms of an obvious action that impacts an opponent..
C is the correct answer for me.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#6
A for me, reason being if the offside player is close enough to the defender that a tackle can be attempted, thats interfering with an opponent and being involved in the play and I would expect offside to be awarded before the defender makes the attempted tackle.

If however am reading it wrong and the offside has not yet been given, its C as a reckless foul is a reckless foul regardless.
 

Russell Jones

RefChat Addict
#7
C for me. If she's in the process of touching the ball then she is offside, hence that is the first offence leading to a defensive IFK. However the tackle should still be sanctioned with a caution
 

spuddy1878

RefChat Addict
#8
I think this thread just goes to show how a) hard it is for a referee and b) how confusing parts of the offside law have become.

We have one who says A, one who says B and four say C

Might be easier if we could see a clip of it.
 
#9
I think this thread just goes to show how a) hard it is for a referee and b) how confusing parts of the offside law have become.

We have one who says A, one who says B and four say C

Might be easier if we could see a clip of it.
I don't necessarily agree that this highlights confusion in the offside law....I mean, don't get me wrong, the offside law is an absolute mess that makes no logical sense :)

I mean, we once had a ref on here who said that if the ball goes out then in, don't stop play if nobody is appealing. He was dead serious too. That doesn't mean the law on the ball in or out of play is confusing - he was just wrong. The only person who said A was @Ciley Myrus , but he explained that was based on thinking that it would have been stopped well before - and he clarified by saying if it wasn't, then C.

And he'd be right that if the offside was called early that's the best case scenario - but maybe that wasn't an option here, who knows.


But surely offside is when the player becomes active ie by playing the ball.
The ball was played towards her but she could easily have left/ignored the ball which would make her not offside, something we are told to do. She is taken out before she has the opportunity to have left it or played it.
She's in the process of touching the ball - so, making the lunge.

Also, given she's doing this while between the defender and the ball, she's definitely interfering with the opponent. So if you have doubts about interfering with play, pick that one.

If she's lunging for a ball that a defender is near and having to challenge, then I'd argue that clearly meets the definition of interfering with an opponent. Thus, the offside occurred first.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#10
Not enough information in the question for me to make a definitive decision. What does "in the process of" mean?

If the picture is part of the description then it's offside for interfering with the keeper. So C is the answer.

However take the keeper out of that picture then the answer changes as she has not interfered with an opponent or interfered with play until she touches or plays the ball.

The specific law that applies here:

Screenshot_20190104-002402__01.jpg
 
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#12
Initial thought was A, but I can see why people say C. In my brain I'd be thinking offside, then I'd be picking my brains regarding what happens next re the challenge.
 

bester

RefChat Addict
#13
Common trait for A&H to give ambiguously worded law questions. They usually create debate but for all the wrong reasons.
 
#14
I think it's a great question for thinking about--whether it has a clear answer is another issue. But it brings together three potential issues for us as referees: (1) when does an offside infringement actually occur, (2) what do you do when two offenses are simultaneous., and (3) how do you handle a reckless challenge that occurs after the ball is out of play.

I think the thrust of the question was trying to craft simultaneous infractions, which would makes B the clear answer.

But I have trouble getting there in the real world, as it seems to me that whether you classify it as a clear action near the ball or as challenging an opponent for the ball, those seem to have occurred prior to the reckless tackle--the reckless tackle doesn't happen if the attacker isn't challenging for the ball.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#15
I think it's a great question for thinking about--whether it has a clear answer is another issue. But it brings together three potential issues for us as referees: (1) when does an offside infringement actually occur, (2) what do you do when two offenses are simultaneous., and (3) how do you handle a reckless challenge that occurs after the ball is out of play.

I think the thrust of the question was trying to craft simultaneous infractions, which would makes B the clear answer.

But I have trouble getting there in the real world, as it seems to me that whether you classify it as a clear action near the ball or as challenging an opponent for the ball, those seem to have occurred prior to the reckless tackle--the reckless tackle doesn't happen if the attacker isn't challenging for the ball.


Your last sentance was my thinking. Must be impacting a defenders ability of playing the ball if the offside player is so much involved that she is tackled
 
#16
The offside law would be better if "in playing distance" was used in connection with becoming active, rather than "playing or attempting to play the ball".
 

one

RefChat Addict
#17
... but she's attempting to play the ball.

Which keeps it firmly in the court of "C".
That is an interpretation though. The question doesn't say that. It says "in the process of" which could mean intending to or attempting to. The difference between intending to and attempting to is time and distance which the photo clarifies a bit but the foul could have happened well before the snap.

The offside law would be better if "in playing distance" was used in connection with becoming active, rather than "playing or attempting to play the ball".
Better yet use 'foul before interfering with an opponent or interfering with play". Both of those are well defined.
 
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