The Ref Stop

What an absolute load of ******** dissent is

C

CapnBloodbeard

RefChat Addict
Watched a friend's ice hockey grand final last week. Quite a high league, only 2 levels below the top Australian national competition. Referees would call fouls, bring play back to the other end, even sin bin a few players. Not a peep was said to the ref. No arms thrown up in the air at a decision, no screaming 'REF!!!' every time somebody comes near. One sin bin was a pretty harsh decision, still nothing. And this is a pretty brutal, aggressive sport where players lose their cool at each other (but are also mature enough to deal with it. Lose their cool, belt somebody off the puck, it's over 5 seconds later).

I mentioned it to my friend and he said 'that's because they all know that if they open their mouth, it's 2min in the bin'

Made me realise that all this nonsense we use to justify dissent? It's an emotional game? Referees should manage the players and not discipline them? It's about feeling the game, not just applying the LOTG? Referees shouldn't be noticed/shouldn't interfere with the spectators enjoyment of the match? They're just venting their frustration? It's part of the game?

It's all complete and utter b******t. Every single bit of it.

And it really made me realise how utterly pathetic, even embarrassing, some aspects of this game are, such as the mobbing of the referee if he so much as makes a decision on which colour Gatorade he wants to have at half time.

We're all being lied to, every single one of us, and in turn we're also selling that lie ourselves.

It's all absolute ********. There's not a single reason for this game to be the way it is. Not one (the only real reason is that it's too hard to change, and that's just an excuse). And there's zero reason why this game has to put up with far, far more dissent and abuse and general attention to the referee than every other sport under the sun put together. Absolutely none. We have plenty of excuses, but they're complete b******t. Every single one of them.
 
The Ref Stop
What about the old rugby rule that any dissent saw a penalty moved 10 yards further forward? I recall this being tested in football a few years ago but it never took on.

In general I agree with your comments. In any other sport, social or business situation the level of abuse/dissent we put up with would just not be allowed.
 
OIREF! said:
What about the old rugby rule that any dissent saw a penalty moved 10 yards further forward? I recall this being tested in football a few years ago but it never took on.

In general I agree with your comments. In any other sport, social or business situation the level of abuse/dissent we put up with would just not be allowed.
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the 10 yards penalty would be much easier to manage than a sin bin to manage
 
OIREF! said:
What about the old rugby rule that any dissent saw a penalty moved 10 yards further forward? I recall this being tested in football a few years ago but it never took on.

In general I agree with your comments. In any other sport, social or business situation the level of abuse/dissent we put up with would just not be allowed.
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So deal with it.
 
OIREF! said:
What about the old rugby rule that any dissent saw a penalty moved 10 yards further forward? I recall this being tested in football a few years ago but it never took on.

In general I agree with your comments. In any other sport, social or business situation the level of abuse/dissent we put up with would just not be allowed.
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Was tested for 2 seasons in England and the players didn't like it.
 
Precisely. Although even that wouldn't be sufficient - increasing the punishment isn't enough to stop the culture. Zero tolerance will work if it's applied consistently, and there's no reason not to apply it. And it would help stop some of these absolutely pathetic scenes that you see constantly as well.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Was tested for 2 seasons in England and the players didn't like it.
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The problem was you had to caution as well, so a double penalty. FIFA did not extend as other countries did not understand the concept.

Given the success of the RWC, it may be time to try again (possibly without the caution for the lower level moaning).
 
I fear it would be abused by soft referees (the ones who don't submit cautions anyway) who would exclusively use it rather than issueing cautions. It would need solid guidance for use.
 
In addition, the 10 yard penalty is not usually as significant in football as in rugby.
In rugby almost any penalty is more advantageous if moved 10 yards forward (and if it is not then you have the option to take the penalty at any point behind the mark), in football, very few FKs moved forward create a significant advantage and in some cases would be a disadvantage.
 
The sin bin is used over here (the Netherlands) in low-rung youth and over-18 divisions. For a specific set of fouls (including dissent), rather than issuing a yellow card, the referee can send the offender off the field for 10 mins. This has been in place for about three years now. I don't know whether there has been an evaluation yet, but from what I hear it seems to be successful (not counting the difficulties of managing multiple sin bin offenders). Like McTavish, I think the 10-yard penalty would be less effective. On the other hand, playing 10 against 11 is less significant than 4 against 5, like in ice hockey. But it would be a start.
 
I like the idea of sins bins, but administrating them as a lone ref sounds a pain in the backside
 
SM said:
I like the idea of sins bins, but administrating them as a lone ref sounds a pain in the backside
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I don't fancy sin bins. The loss of a player for 10 mins in rugby is a major disadvantage but we see football teams coping with 10 men for lengthy periods. Does anyone know if a player can be sin binned for a second time in the same match in rugby or does a second incident result in dismissal? I'd like to think it was a dismissal, I wouldn't be keen on a player returning from the sin bin to restart his misdemeanours from scratch.

I also agree that is unworkable if you are a lone ref. Quite conceivable that you could have 5/6 players sin binned at the same time. You'd spend more time managing the sin bin timings that referreeing the match.
 
It's not unworkable. I used to referee Futsal as well, and very rarely would I have a timekeeper. And it's probably harder to keep track of things in Futsal when the game moves faster and you can't really delay stoppages too much.
Well, it's not a sin bin - it's if a player is sent off, they can replace the player after 2min. so there's still the same aspect of timekeeping.
but, I adamantly cling to my point; whether we're talking about sin bins, cards, 10 yard penalties, 50 yard penalties (used in Aussie rules, but the pitch is 150m long), or anything - this is all undermined by the leniency we use, when there's no reason at all to do anything other than zero tolerance.
 
This brings the argument about Dissent back to the Referees at the top level not applying it , from there it filters down the levels till the 13 and 14 year olds think its part of the game and therefor carry into adult football

Though I must admit in the Champions league it seems to be dealt with rather well
 
OIREF! said:
I don't fancy sin bins. The loss of a player for 10 mins in rugby is a major disadvantage but we see football teams coping with 10 men for lengthy periods. Does anyone know if a player can be sin binned for a second time in the same match in rugby or does a second incident result in dismissal? I'd like to think it was a dismissal, I wouldn't be keen on a player returning from the sin bin to restart his misdemeanours from scratch.
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In Union, the sin-bin acts as a yellow card. Second yellow / sin-bin = dismissal. Not sure about Rugby League but probably the same.
 
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