The Ref Stop

Vardy's dive

PinnerPaul said:
Hmmm, think that's pushing the case for the defence a bit too far.

Once he has used a public warning for holding, surely that warning is in place for the rest of the game - not just the next set piece?
Especially when the holdling on Huth was "worse" than the incident against Morgan - which I agree was correct to give (in the context of having just issued a warning)
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Sorry, I think there must have been some confusion. I'm saying that there's a possibility that Moss wouldn't have wanted to give either of them - after all, how many penalties for similar incidents have we actually seen in the PL this season? But after giving such a public warning, he had no choice but to give the first one. Whereas enough time has passed before the second one that he can "get away" with following the norm and not giving a penalty.

There's a lack of consistency within the match, but the second decision is much more consistent with other referees in the season as a whole than the first one was! It's not strong refereeing, but I understand why he felt he had less reason to give the second.
 
The Ref Stop
Definately a dive, yes the defender was touching him but not enough for him to go over, Vardy steps in front of defender then dives good call for simulation deserved the yellow.
 
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And strident support for Jon Moss from none other than Jamie Carragher on tonight's Monday Night Football ... his performance has certainly divided opinion! For me, the only clear mistake he made was not giving Leicester a penalty for the foul on Huth, having already given one for a similar offence at the other end. But overall, thought he did well in a tough environment .. and I'm not normally his biggest fan
 
Sky have a shown a few replays of the Leicester's penalty from straight down the pitch as a opposed to the normal side/diagonal views, it's similar to the view Moss had. Looks absolutely stonewall from that angle. No intent to play the ball by Carroll whatsoever!
 
Russell Jones said:
And strident support for Jon Moss from none other than Jamie Carragher on tonight's Monday Night Football ... his performance has certainly divided opinion! For me, the only clear mistake he made was not giving Leicester a penalty for the foul on Huth, having already given one for a similar offence at the other end. But overall, thought he did well in a tough environment .. and I'm not normally his biggest fan
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Couldn't agree more Russell. I think what people have to accept, that we referees already know, is that a match with 100% correct, black & white decisions, that no one disagrees with just isn't possible.

Technology - more calls for that of course after the game - just introduces another opinion into the mix.
 
I probably give more FKs (and maybe penalties) than most for holding/pushing etc (something I'm thinking about reducing, it creates lots of stoppages in the first half but aids my match control in the second I find), however, I tend to apply the general rule that I'm only giving a holding FK/pen if it's actually stopping the player from playing the ball. In last night's game Shawcross dragged Alderweireld down in the box, but the corner didn't get past the first bunch of players so I wouldn't give it. Similarly with Huth being held, although Huth should feel pretty lucky he didn't win 3 or 4 pens but concede about 10
 
santa sangria said:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/18/jon-moss-referee-leicester-west-ham-jamie-vardy

Comments below the line on the Graun also surprisingly supportive of Moss. Hackett should have a long hard look at himself.

The Carroll penalty is the only decision worth debating for me. All the rest I thought were spot on.
So did big Andy really wander over with no attempt to play the ball - it looks such a harsh decision - what is the interpretation here?
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good article that, but it does make me seethe a little that some ex refs are critical of the man
they of all people should be telling the world how it is from JM's perspective
 
I believe that he was correct on every major decision. Peter Schmeichel and those former referees should be ashamed of themselves. It seems that the Respect campaign is important as far as it goes, but that the Leicester 'fairy-tale' should not be subject to the same criteria.
For the holding offences in the penalty area, I can see why he gave the West Ham one, having warned Morgan and Huth beforehand. Regarding the Leicester appeals, to me it looked more like Huth trying to provoke contact to draw the referee's attention, not so different from Vardy's intention earlier, hence why Moss ignored it.
On the 95th minute penalty, Carroll was foolish. It is a foul, even if (again) the Leicester player had no other thought than to go down. I half wonder whether we would get rid of a lot of the abuse and consternation surrounding penalty decisions (especially on the so-called 'softer' fouls) if we abolished the current procedure and made players take an unopposed free kick from the 18 yard line--no wall, just player vs. goal keeper. One to watch out for in the Fifa annual conference of 2050, perhaps!
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
In your opinion, what happened?
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I just think that if you looked at it from the opposite angle to that below, it looks as though he's trying to shift his body across to gaint better control of the ball, putting himself in front of the defender in a position which would allow him to shield. Credit to Moss though, his positioning is actually very good and the angle below also shows him wheeling round into frame - he wouldn't have been far off the angle I'm describing.

Whilst I understand that from there he goes flying and so it looks as though he's essentially shifted to try to make contact and have the excuse to fling himself, I actually think it's all a bit more innocent than that, I think he's tried to get in a better position across the face of the ball and in the process his legs have been tangled and both have gone down. While Vardy does 'shoot forward', I don't think any player is guilty of causing that trip in a manner which justifies a foul to either side, there is very little use of arm/body and besides, it's a contact sport. For me it's a coming together that'd have been best left ignored - I don't think either side would have had many complaints with that.

Credit to Moss though, his positioning is actually very good and the angle below also shows him wheeling round into frame - he wouldn't have been far off the angle I'm describing. And of course, I've been a ref for a few months compared to a cumulative hundreds of years from all who disagree, including Moss himself, so I suppose I'll have to admit I'm wrong on this one anyway!

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Kes said:
I'm actually going to meet JM next Thursday since he's a guest speaker at our dinner and training day. I'll be sure and tell him he's got the firm support of everybody except DaleM on here. :D
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Haha. I'm sure he'll be gutted!
 
when he blow the whistle he could have award a foul against vardy for foul on the west ham defender. nobody would be talking about it now.
He has opened up himself to scrutiny now. When i play goes down easily in the box. Moss should be cautioning them all.
 
H
Iain said:
when he blow the whistle he could have award a foul against vardy for foul on the west ham defender. nobody would be talking about it now.
He has opened up himself to scrutiny now. When i play goes down easily in the box. Moss should be cautioning them all.
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How on earth is that possible? What exactly would the caution be under? Can only be simulation.
 
thats what i.m saying. Moss would now have to caution any one going down easily under a challenge as simulation.
 
Iain said:
thats what i.m saying. Moss would now have to caution any one going down easily under a challenge as simulation.
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No he wouldn't. He hasn't set any precedent or standard for himself here. He'll deal with each situation on his merits. This wasn't 'going down easily'. He threw his legs up in a classic dive while throwing them into the opponent to initiate the contact.

Iain said:
when he blow the whistle he could have award a foul against vardy for foul on the west ham defender. nobody would be talking about it now.
He has opened up himself to scrutiny now. When i play goes down easily in the box. Moss should be cautioning them all.
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I think you're significantly overstating the issue here - it's not like he's the first premier league referee to make a controversial decision. He opened himself up to scrutiny the moment he picked up the whistle for his first game!

You are correct that he could have awarded a foul for tripping the opponent - but Vardy cheated. Why not deal with that with the severity it deserves?
 
Ahhhh ok I mis understood!

Simulation is a git though. You have to be 100% to give it and it's very difficult to spot in real time
 
Iain said:
thats what i.m saying. Moss would now have to caution any one going down easily under a challenge as simulation.
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No, he wouldn't. There's a clear difference between 'going down a bit easily' (which players do ALL THE TIME and it is our job to distinguish between a foul and someone that needs to get on the weights) and someone making a clear _effort_ to adjust their position to engineer a 'foul' and win a penalty.
 
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