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VAR accuaracy. Again.

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This is more in line with my experience than the 99.7% accuracy rubbish.

This EPL season VAR fixed 42 bad decisions, didn't fix 6 bad decisions they should have, and scrwed up 6 good decisions. I still think better to have them than not but they are bloody frustrating.
 
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The Guardian story is similar so the press have been briefed… but it would be interesting to see the official announcement - it’s the timing part that confuses me - a crack down on time wasting but no added time for excessive goal celebrations? Really, how does that work?
 
As someone pointed out on another site, that's a far higher % of errors for VAR than a mere human one!

Slightly disingenuous but given us human refs are quoted at something like 95%+ accuracy for all decisions to get 12 out of 54 wrong - is that what they are saying? - is pretty poor - ducks for cover!;)
 
The Guardian story is similar so the press have been briefed… but it would be interesting to see the official announcement - it’s the timing part that confuses me - a crack down on time wasting but no added time for excessive goal celebrations? Really, how does that work?
I really love the way they are quoted as saying that "they" ie the PL, ie the clubs, are "not prepared" to add on time for goal celebrations - isn't that something the PGMOL should be deciding?:rolleyes:

Of course I realise who really decides on these matters, but still looks quite odd when reported like this.
 
As someone pointed out on another site, that's a far higher % of errors for VAR than a mere human one!

Slightly disingenuous but given us human refs are quoted at something like 95%+ accuracy for all decisions to get 12 out of 54 wrong - is that what they are saying? - is pretty poor - ducks for cover!;)

I don't think unaided humans get 95% of decisions correct. You'd have to know how many decisions VAR would have been eligible to correct over that period to be able to tell.

Anyway, having VAR meant there were 42 decisions made good and 6 made bad. So that's a net impact of 36 correct decisions (compared with not having VAR). So on that basis it's a win.
 
I think it is. The upside is more correct decisions. The downside is ... a delay to get a correct decision?
And correct decisions changed to incorrect decisions. . . .

I also think there is an intangible effect on referees, where certain calls don’t get made. I don’t think it is conscious, but I think there are calls where Rs wait to get bailed out by VAR. And that results in missed calls that weren’t sufficiently clear and obvious for VAR to fix.
but it really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks about whether we should keep VAR--it’s not going anywhere.
 
I don't think unaided humans get 95% of decisions correct. You'd have to know how many decisions VAR would have been eligible to correct over that period to be able to tell.

Anyway, having VAR meant there were 42 decisions made good and 6 made bad. So that's a net impact of 36 correct decisions (compared with not having VAR). So on that basis it's a win.
Actually this article (From 2017) quotes the figure as 98%!

 
I think it is. The upside is more correct decisions. The downside is ... a delay to get a correct decision?
and a delay to get the incorrect decision and more dissent (not less as was promised) as we can all see players ask the referee if ANY penalty decision is going to be reviewed now and the fact that ARs are not flagging even the most obvious offsides immediately and.....but you get my drift! ;)
 
I don't think unaided humans get 95% of decisions correct. You'd have to know how many decisions VAR would have been eligible to correct over that period to be able to tell.

Anyway, having VAR meant there were 42 decisions made good and 6 made bad. So that's a net impact of 36 correct decisions (compared with not having VAR). So on that basis it's a win.
Still got 12 out of 54 wrong which is very high with the aid of more time and more and better angles no?
 
I don't think unaided humans get 95% of decisions correct. You'd have to know how many decisions VAR would have been eligible to correct over that period to be able to tell.

Anyway, having VAR meant there were 42 decisions made good and 6 made bad. So that's a net impact of 36 correct decisions (compared with not having VAR). So on that basis it's a win.
That's if you believe the Referees are not leaving it to VAR, which would be absurd

I'm not sure I know anyone, aside from referees, who would want to keep VAR. In fact most refs I work with don't like it
But it's not going anywhere, for lots of reasons. Spectators attending games just have to tolerate it. They're bottom of the pile in general

The forum is an exception. I'd guess around 2/3rds of members are generally pro-VAR. Anywhere else, I'd estimate 1/3rd, but even that would be on the proviso that the endless promise of improvement comes to fruition. Otherwise it would be a small percentage
Webb will make a positive difference (he could hardly fail to do so), but I'm very sceptical about him working miracles. It would be good if my scepticism turns out to be misplaced
 
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That's why I said the net effect is more correct decisions.
I didn’t miss that. But correct decisions being reversed by VAR is more bad for the game then incorrect decisions being fixed. And, as the rest of my post addresses, that is an overly simplistic way of measuring the impact VAR has on the game.
 
That's if you believe the Referees are not leaving it to VAR, which would be absurd

I'm not sure I know anyone, aside from referees, who would want to keep VAR. In fact most refs I work with don't like it
But it's not going anywhere, for lots of reasons. Spectators attending games just have to tolerate it. They're bottom of the pile in general

The forum is an exception. I'd guess around 2/3rds of members are generally pro-VAR. Anywhere else, I'd estimate 1/3rd, but even that would be on the proviso that the endless promise of improvement comes to fruition. Otherwise it would be a small percentage
Webb will make a positive difference (he could hardly fail to do so), but I'm very sceptical about him working miracles. It would be good if my scepticism turns out to be misplaced
This keeps coming up, and I'll keep giving the same response. They would be crazy to leave it to VAR as if they do, and their original decision is overturned after a review, they get a 7.9.

I think VAR is a lot more popular in other countries than in England, and that isn't surprising due to the way Mike Riley and his team ran it. Guidelines and directives seemed to be changed on a regular basis, and that would have made it very difficult for the officials. It should be a lot better under Howard Webb, he has a proven track record with it, and I think we will now start to see only decisions that are very, very clearly wrong or missed referred (or offside which is factual). Even more so if he brings the transparency on VAR decisions that are in place in the US, the shroud of secrecy from PGMOL is what has annoyed people as much as anything else.
 
This keeps coming up, and I'll keep giving the same response. They would be crazy to leave it to VAR as if they do, and their original decision is overturned after a review, they get a 7.9.
It does and we'll keep disagreeing on it forevermore. Scores of that nature clearly don't matter a jot at that level. Impossible to get sacked for one thing. I think you're naive and you think i'm plain wrong (based on your expectation of scoring & yesteryear). Anyway, we won't agree other wise we'd have already discussed middle ground

Webb undoubtedly will improve things. How could he not? But with the exception of the MLS (where it's a cultural fit), VAR is pants everywhere else. I keep hearing how much better it is outside the EPL, but evidence to the contrary is all over social media all of the time. It wasn't great at the WC and you'd think they'd be setting the standard. Thankfully, the Ref in the final was bold enough to not fall back on it like most of the others 🐈

I'm not anti-VAR.... just to set that straight. I'm pro-football. VAR could add something to the game (cost/benefit), but not with the governance structure in place with our incarnation of FIFA and IFAB we have
 
It does and we'll keep disagreeing on it forevermore. Scores of that nature clearly don't matter a jot at that level. Impossible to get sacked for one thing. I think you're naive and you think i'm plain wrong (based on your expectation of scoring & yesteryear). Anyway, we won't agree other wise we'd have already discussed middle ground

Webb undoubtedly will improve things. How could he not? But with the exception of the MLS (where it's a cultural fit), VAR is pants everywhere else. I keep hearing how much better it is outside the EPL, but evidence to the contrary is all over social media all of the time. It wasn't great at the WC and you'd think they'd be setting the standard. Thankfully, the Ref in the final was bold enough to not fall back on it like most of the others 🐈

I'm not anti-VAR.... just to set that straight. I'm pro-football. VAR could add something to the game (cost/benefit), but not with the governance structure in place with our incarnation of FIFA and IFAB we have
Of course their marks matter, if they didn't they wouldn't bother observing them. OK, demotion might be tricky due to the professional contracts, although it has happened, but they won't be getting plum appointments if they are regularly getting KMIs wrong and having to be bailed out by VAR.

And the change of head honcho is going to make that even more important. Webb wants very low VAR involvement, as he has said in interviews it needs to be something that screams out to everyone as an obvious error or missed incident, so if referees are regularly missing these their ability and suitability is going to be seriously called into question.
 
Of course their marks matter
This argument that the marks are of some high value falls apart on one axiom
The PGMOL Referees cannot be as bad as they are. I just can't entertain that notion. They are better than that. A lot better
If you're right and the marks really do determine the Oliver/Taylors of the world, then it shows a profound burden of refereeing with Big Brother looking over their shoulders and the unintended psychological impact of doing so... knowing consciously or sub-consciously that they can phone a friend. I'm in no doubt whatsoever, the standard of on-field refereeing has been badly affected by VAR. I'm just not having it, that these fallas miss the things they routinely need VAR to sort out. Added, the C&O criteria of reversal and we have a C&O mess
But you're inferring that our colleagues are pants and I'm not
 
This keeps coming up, and I'll keep giving the same response. They would be crazy to leave it to VAR as if they do, and their original decision is overturned after a review, they get a 7.9.
I agree that refs are not deliberately leaving anything to VAR (at least not the good ones). But I do think the existence of VAR has a subconscious impact on decision making. But that is really hard to actually measure or document- or even to determine if it is a positive or negative Influence.
But with the exception of the MLS (where it's a cultural fit), VAR is pants everywhere else. I keep hearing how much better it is outside the EPL, but evidence to the contrary is all over social media all of the time. It wasn't great at the WC and you'd think they'd be setting the standard. Thankfully, the Ref in the final was bold enough to not fall back on it like most of the others 🐈

As for MLS, I think its a gross oversimplification to say its a cultural fit. While Americans in general may be more used to video review from other sports, i think there was similar skepticism among the soccer community to other places. I think MLS did several things to make implementation much better than PL (and most of the world)--not something we get to say about MLS very often. MLS (well, really PRO, the referee organization), took training very seriously. That has helped not only in terms of accuracy of VAR, recommendations, but also in the efficiency of the system by VAR and by the R. As best I can tell, MLS Rs are the best in the world at working with the VAR during an OFR in directing what information or views they want, and the VARs are excellent at having those different views at hand and ready to go. They avoided the pitfalls of the line drawing by sticking with clear and obvious as the standard for reversing calls on OSP. And they have been very, very proactive in communication about the successes and failures of the use of VAR With weekly videos and memos about the use of VAR.

I still dont like video revie in soccer (or most sports). But it’s here to stay.
 
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