Unintentional violent conduct...

[Paul_10]

So, MD twice gets told to go to the monitor by VAR. To give reds he doesn’t want to give. Both are overturned on appeal. Now death threats.

VAR just has to go.

Mike Dean did not had to give the red cards if he felt they were not red cards. In particular the 2nd one as that was alot more subjective.

I feel sorry for him regarding death threats though, no place for that whatsoever.

I do agree with Mark Halsey's thoughts the referees are overworked especially in these times where fixtures come in thick and fast, it does feel like the top referees get no rest at all because if they are not reffing, they are on VAR which still involves travel and mental fatigue to consider.

 

[Big Cat]

I'd not weep if Mason announced his retirement

Well, yeh, there is that. It doesn't matter if a nobody like me was to say it, but it's poor form to come from Hackett

 

[RustyRef]

What none of us on here know is what instructions PGMOL have given regarding VAR usage. We certainly know that they did not want to use pitch side reviews, and only did so after FIFA got involved and effectively threatened them. Perhaps, and it is just perhaps as I don't know more than anyone else, they have told officials that if VAR recommends a review they should always go with the recommendation regardless of what they see on the screen. What I do know, and I consider myself very good at reading body language, is that Mike Dean really didn't want to give that red card. He didn't really want to leave the review area, and was almost apologetic in showing the red card. Of all SG1 referees Mike Dean is the absolute last one you would normally identify as showing sympathy when issuing a card. I am certain that he did not want to give a red card there, which makes me think his hands were tied somewhat.

 

[PinnerPaul]

I might voice strong opinions to everyone's dread, but Hackett is being ridiculous if he said that

If you read his 'You Are The Ref' books, you can see that he does 'ridiculous' very well!

 

[Paul_10]

What none of us on here know is what instructions PGMOL have given regarding VAR usage. We certainly know that they did not want to use pitch side reviews, and only did so after FIFA got involved and effectively threatened them. Perhaps, and it is just perhaps as I don't know more than anyone else, they have told officials that if VAR recommends a review they should always go with the recommendation regardless of what they see on the screen. What I do know, and I consider myself very good at reading body language, is that Mike Dean really didn't want to give that red card. He didn't really want to leave the review area, and was almost apologetic in showing the red card. Of all SG1 referees Mike Dean is the absolute last one you would normally identify as showing sympathy when issuing a card. I am certain that he did not want to give a red card there, which makes me think his hands were tied somewhat.

But again, Graham Scott and Andre Marriner both rejected what the VAR thought after looking at the monitor. The latter ironically had Lee Mason telling him to look at the screen! So this seems to suggest it's down to the on field referee mainly. Orseto in the Champions League showed a yellow for Fred headbutting a PSG player because the action did not had much force at all to make the PSG player to go down like that, surely if Dean did not thought it was a red, he should of went yellow or nothing at all.

 

[JamesL]

What none of us on here know is what instructions PGMOL have given regarding VAR usage. We certainly know that they did not want to use pitch side reviews, and only did so after FIFA got involved and effectively threatened them. Perhaps, and it is just perhaps as I don't know more than anyone else, they have told officials that if VAR recommends a review they should always go with the recommendation regardless of what they see on the screen. What I do know, and I consider myself very good at reading body language, is that Mike Dean really didn't want to give that red card. He didn't really want to leave the review area, and was almost apologetic in showing the red card. Of all SG1 referees Mike Dean is the absolute last one you would normally identify as showing sympathy when issuing a card. I am certain that he did not want to give a red card there, which makes me think his hands were tied somewhat.

Being a tad on the deaf side. And preferring to be able to see someone speak I am not horrendous at lip reading. I think he says to him, based on the evidence I've got no choice.

 

[JamesL]

If you read his 'You Are The Ref' books, you can see that he does 'ridiculous' very well!

I wouldn't give him any of my time or money. I followed him on twitter for a while and he was just disgraceful.

 

[RustyRef]

But again, Graham Scott and Andre Marriner both rejected what the VAR thought after looking at the monitor. The latter ironically had Lee Mason telling him to look at the screen! So this seems to suggest it's down to the on field referee mainly. Orseto in the Champions League showed a yellow for Fred headbutting a PSG player because the action did not had much force at all to make the PSG player to go down like that, surely if Dean did not thought it was a red, he should of went yellow or nothing at all.

And I'm also pretty sure that Scott didn't game a game the week after, although there was an argument he was technically wrong to not go with VAR. As I said though, no one really knows why the red card was given, and we don't know what advice or directives are given to the officials.

 

[santa sangria]

VAR didnt get the decisions wrong, the process did

so what do we really want?

No VAR at all? not a likely outcome

keep VAR as it is now - hardly preferable given fans growing displeasure

something else? possibly but what?

possibly for a separate discussion / another time

No VAR at all thanks. Easy decision from my point of view.

 

[socal lurker]

What none of us on here know is what instructions PGMOL have given regarding VAR usage. We certainly know that they did not want to use pitch side reviews, and only did so after FIFA got involved and effectively threatened them. Perhaps, and it is just perhaps as I don't know more than anyone else, they have told officials that if VAR recommends a review they should always go with the recommendation regardless of what they see on the screen. What I do know, and I consider myself very good at reading body language, is that Mike Dean really didn't want to give that red card. He didn't really want to leave the review area, and was almost apologetic in showing the red card. Of all SG1 referees Mike Dean is the absolute last one you would normally identify as showing sympathy when issuing a card. I am certain that he did not want to give a red card there, which makes me think his hands were tied somewhat.

I think a key question that we don't know the answer to is whether he felt his hands were tiled because PGMOL is telling Rs to always follow the refs or because of how PGMOL is instructing on hands and faces. I suspect it is the latter.

 

[one]

If you read his 'You Are The Ref' books, you can see that he does 'ridiculous' very well!

And very often. Well, untill I stopped reading them.

 

[one]

We have seen frequently that PGMOL referees are not very good at LOTG. I believe both VAR and MD did not know that non-negligible strike to the head has to be deliberate for VC. I think MD felt by law he has no choice but to send him off. That's another explanation I can come up for the body language.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Should be interesting to see how Lee Mason gets on as 4th official tomorrow night at Old Trafford...

 

[santa sangria]

We have seen frequently that PGMOL referees are not very good at LOTG. I believe both VAR and MD did not know that non-negligible strike to the head has to be deliberate for VC. I think MD felt by law he has no choice but to send him off. That's another explanation I can come up for the body language.

Strongly disagree. Highly unlikely IMHO.

 

[Kes]

So, MD twice gets told to go to the monitor by VAR. To give reds he doesn’t want to give. Both are overturned on appeal. Now death threats.

VAR just has to go.

Please don't link the behaviour of sick society with the game in any way mate.

Nothing to do with football, VAR or match officials.

 

[PinnerPaul]

And very often. Well, untill I stopped reading them.

Someone got me one for my birthday, so feel honour bound to read it.

In amongst the rare learning point are mainly absurd situations that will NEVER happen - I give you a banned manager dressed as the club mascot and the referee recognising his voice! and very very unlikely situations that I don't agree with the answer - I give you players from same team take a throw in with two different balls after 'extra' one returned by mistake - answer - throw to the opposition!

 

[Matthew]

Please don't link the behaviour of sick society with the game in any way mate.

Nothing to do with football, VAR or match officials.

I don't think it's possible to completely disconnect the two.

Football, particularly at the highest level, has normalised abuse of match officials as being a part of the game and it empowers the dregs of society to dish out the kind of abuse we're now seeing. It filters down to grassroots, so it's hardly a massive jump to think that it has an impact on what fans think is acceptable too.

 

[Kes]

I don't think it's possible to completely disconnect the two.

Football, particularly at the highest level, has normalised abuse of match officials as being a part of the game and it empowers the dregs of society to dish out the kind of abuse we're now seeing. It filters down to grassroots, so it's hardly a massive jump to think that it has an impact on what fans think is acceptable too.

It's a fair point (and well made) but moreover, my real point was that media abuse is prevalent in all areas of (sick) society and that the events of a football match aren't a link in any way. Like you say, the sickos that typed the abuse to Dean via a keyboard, would no doubt have been spitting and hissing the same bile in person whilst stood in the crowd under normal circumstances - it's just that he wouldn't have heard it. It's also possible that none of them have ever even attended a football match which kind of underlines my point.

These people won't change, they are what they are. To suggest (as the member did) that as a result, football protocol has to change is not correct.

 

[Big Cat]

I don't think it's possible to completely disconnect the two.

Football, particularly at the highest level, has normalised abuse of match officials as being a part of the game and it empowers the dregs of society to dish out the kind of abuse we're now seeing. It filters down to grassroots, so it's hardly a massive jump to think that it has an impact on what fans think is acceptable too.

I agree
There's appreciable overlap between behaviour in football and that we see in society. This abuse of MD has bought the wider issues to the fore today. Those who run football, don't seem to realize or don't seem to care as long as the money keeps flowing
It stands to reason that if fans see Ashley Barnes frothing venom in an AR's face without repercussions, that fan might act out the same behaviour in their Sunday Leagues

WRT Social Media... I don't see a solution. If you've got millions voicing there's views in public, a few of them will always be vile, whether it be Mike Dean or someone's skin colour (or whatever) on the menu. The Social Media Companies are only really interested in their 'botton line' also

 

[Big Cat]

Most people wouldn't dream of taking up the whistle the way things are. We must be at least, 'a bit mad' to do so