The Ref Stop

Under 12 Red Card

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Zimmyman

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Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
 
The Ref Stop
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
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As long as you explained WHY it was a red card then I see no issue. The one thing I will never tolerate is accusations of cheating and the sooner players learn to respect that the better.
 
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
Click to expand...
That’s one of my pet hates. I’d rather have a player tell me straight up that I’m sh*t than hit me with the whole ‘how much are they paying you?’ as for me that’s the roundabout way of calling you a cheat.
 
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
Click to expand...

This exact situation was raised on a thread last week.

as ever, only the referee in question knows the context, so there is no concrete answer,

For me, its a case here of approaching coach, " tell your keeper to watch his comments please"

How much are they paying you?
Two teams on the park ref
You got a blue shirt on underneath
Did you travel in their team bus

If for one second anyone treats them as seriously offensive and not the ridiculous hereditary pugwash that they are, then I wholly agree with the poster who said, " lets get off our sanctimonious pedestal and exert our man management skills


these commemts are said for effect, not offence. Give them the attention they merit, whether that be a stare, finger wag, word with coach, word with coach and player, then return to humanity if we can get there safely off our cloud
 
I've had players say that to me.
After reading comments above, I could have sent them off (agree with the fact they're insinuating cheating)...
I have replied to them though "The same as what your manager is" as fees are split down the middle.
 
The words alone mean that a red is justifiable in law for sure.

Does it need to be red? This is where I think you need to apply some judgement - consider the volume, context, if the comment was made seriously/angrily or as a joke in response to something someone else is saying, and if the player/team has been chipping away up until this point or if it's just a one-off. Often a sin bin would be sufficient for that, but only you know if it reached the threshold of insulting to you.
 
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
Click to expand...
Up until the last 5 years i would have red carded.

Now, in this scenario, sin bin would have been my decision. Also send out a message to HIS teammates.
 
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
Click to expand...
For me, if you sent him off because you were offended i'd back you up every day. But I won't if you did it just to teach him life skills. I guess they have coaches and parents for that.

If you were not offended sin bin would have been the correct option.
 
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I've no problem with red, even at u12 (although it depends on the circumstances). The gripe I have is referees who let these things go and then complain about the lack of respect in the game.
Crack down when young, do it consistently, and be fair. At worst, you'll get a reputation of a referee that doesn't take nonsense, and at best, the player will learn from it and not make such stupid comments again.
 
A lot of "man management" comments in this thread but you're just becoming "last weeks ref" when someone actually enforces the Laws and sends someone off for a comment like that.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
A lot of "man management" comments in this thread but you're just becoming "last weeks ref" when someone actually enforces the Laws and sends someone off for a comment like that.
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I disagree on this one. We're not talking about ignoring a Law here, we're talking about the best way to handle when the perp is an 11-year-old. I'm not faulting a ref who sends off because he concludes the kid is accusing him of cheating and is offended. But I'm also not faulting a ref who concludes the player is talking through his hat rather than actually accusing the R of bias such the ref is not offended--in such a case it isn't OFFINABUS and either a caution or a talking to or a talking to with both player and coach are all appropriate options. Not every situation is exactly the same. The magic book is not so rigid that there are no options here.
 
socal lurker said:
I disagree on this one. We're not talking about ignoring a Law here, we're talking about the best way to handle when the perp is an 11-year-old. I'm not faulting a ref who sends off because he concludes the kid is accusing him of cheating and is offended. But I'm also not faulting a ref who concludes the player is talking through his hat rather than actually accusing the R of bias such the ref is not offended--in such a case it isn't OFFINABUS and either a caution or a talking to or a talking to with both player and coach are all appropriate options. Not every situation is exactly the same. The magic book is not so rigid that there are no options here.
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Agree, I'm not in the slightest bit offended if an 11 year old asks me how much the opponents are paying me. The comment was aimed at me, so it is only OFFINABUS if I find it offensive, I am insulted, or feel abused.
 
Not a card for me as I can manage it but obviously it's your game. I would advise not to go looking for trouble (you don't get paid any more for finding it).

I would be very wary of thinking along the terms of "how will they learn life skills". Thats not for us to decide or implement. Dont overthink it.
 
Zimmyman said:
Hi just like to put this one out there for some thoughts ! Spiky under 12 cup game yesterday no real problems but I have a penalty to the home team in the first half it caused the usual ballyhoo one gets around penalties but was done and dusted quickly
Half time arrives and I’m walking off when the away team goalkeeper walks past me and say how much are they paying you !!
I straight away called him over and gave him a red card !! No one around got excited about it and the boy went off crying ! I think I did the right thing because how will they learn life skills ? And particularly insulting referees ? Maybe the sin bin might have sufficed ?
Click to expand...
Just a quick question what happens when you sin bin the goalkeeper?
 
Xavier said:
Just a quick question what happens when you sin bin the goalkeeper?
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Someone on the pitch goes in goal..
They can make a sub keeper if they wish but would need to remove another player to make way for the sub..
Also please remember that when the sin binned player is allowed back on, if its the keeper its to be on field and can only revert back to a keeper at the next stoppage.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Also please remember that when the sin binned player is allowed back on, if its the keeper its to be on field and can only revert back to a keeper at the next stoppage.
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If his time is up at a stoppage, he can go straight in goal. If time is up while ball in play, they can choose to wait untill next stoppage before allowing a palyer on which can go straight in goal including if it is the nines keeper.

I think what you are referring to is that change of goalkeepers can only happen at a stoppage. This is regardless of the sin bin rule.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Also please remember that when the sin binned player is allowed back on, if its the keeper its to be on field and can only revert back to a keeper at the next stoppage.
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Which can cause fun, as he needs to return in an outfield players shirt !!!
 
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