The Ref Stop

TUN vs FRA Matchday 10 - Conger (NZL)

G

george.g

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Match #38
Tunisia v France
Wednesday, 30th November 2022
18:00 Local Time (15:00GMT)
Al-Rayann


Referee: Matthew Conger (NZL)
Assistant Referee 1: Mark Rule (NZL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tevita Makasini (TGA)
Fourth Official: Salima Mukansanga (RWA)
Reserve Assistant Referee: Neuza Back (BRA)
Video Assistant Referee: Abdullah Al Marri (QAT)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Muhammad Bin Jahari (SIN)
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Taleb Al Marri (QAT)
Support Video Assistant Referee: Fernando Guerrero (MEX)
Standby Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Saoud Almaqaleh (QAT)
 
The Ref Stop
Anyone giving a free kick to France for the shirt pull in the build up to Tunisia's goal?
 
Interesting end. Looked like the defender made a pigs ear of the header and not a single appeal after the ball went in. Took VAR an age to send the referee to the screen as well.
 
I think with the interpretation of what it takes for a defensive action to constitute a "play" that resets OS, the call is correct. The defender was challenged and unable to head the ball in anything close to a controlled manner. And G was clearly OS at the time the ball was played by his teammate. (I think this was clearly not OS last year, but correctly called as OS with the change in interpretation.) This would certainly would have been a very big controversy if the goal had changed who advanced.

And Tunisia will forever be fans of VAR . . .
 
socal lurker said:
I think with the interpretation of what it takes for a defensive action to constitute a "play" that resets OS, the call is correct. The defender was challenged and unable to head the ball in anything close to a controlled manner. And G was clearly OS at the time the ball was played by his teammate. (I think this was clearly not OS last year, but correctly called as OS with the change in interpretation.) This would certainly would have been a very big controversy if the goal had changed who advanced.

And Tunisia will forever be fans of VAR . . .
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Not for me, he is clearly stretching but I don't see how that can't be classed as a deliberate play of the ball.
 
Offside in accordance with the IFAB clarifications sent out at the start of the year. There were many examples of offside scenarios on the IFAB site which were more controversial that this one
The Law now massively favours the defender
My flag would've gone up, no doubt to an absolute volley of abuse
 
We as referees’s love to over-complicate simple things, no-one bats an eyelid if ref decided that as a deliberate play. We wait FIFA/IFAB explanation 🙈
 
It's never been an offside, dear me. Ifab have written and rewritten the law to a point that no one knows what offside is or should be
 
Big Cat said:
Offside in accordance with the IFAB clarifications sent out at the start of the year. There were many examples of offside scenarios on the IFAB site which were more controversial that this one
The Law now massively favours the defender
My flag would've gone up, no doubt to an absolute volley of abuse
Click to expand...
I've found the circular they sent out, and it states ...

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

• The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
• The ball was not moving quickly
• The direction of the ball was not unexpected
• The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
• A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air

It came from distance and the defender had a clear view of it.
It wasn't moving quickly, no more so than a "normal" cross.
The direction of the ball wasn't at all unexpected.
The player had penalty of time to see the ball come in.
It was in the air, but so are most crosses.

It isn't that different to video 10 on the clip that accompanied the circular. I think VAR have made an error here, it is at best debatable and certainly not a clear and obvious error. https://red.fifa.com/play/collectio...liberateplayanddeflection?cId=16&itemId=13003
 
This deliberate play action is a joke. How you don’t class a defensive header as deliberate is beyond me. Unless the defender has perfect conditions then it’s not deliberate.
 
RustyRef said:
I've put the criteria for it being a deliberate play above. Did it meet any of them, except the last one which applies to 90% of crosses into the box?
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you but under new law the fact he was challenged and not fully in control of situation, means non deliberate.
I have exactly the same thoughts as you, every ball played into the box that’s headed by a defender, has to be deliberate..
 
Therealcjhill said:
I totally agree with you but under new law the fact he was challenged and not fully in control of situation, means non deliberate.
I have exactly the same thoughts as you, every ball played into the box that’s headed by a defender, has to be deliberate..
Click to expand...
You are going to have to quote the "new law", there was no change to the offside law this season. IFAB issued guidance as I have posted, but this incident met all of the considerations for it being a deliberate play.
 
RustyRef said:
You are going to have to quote the "new law", there was no change to the offside law this season. IFAB issued guidance as I have posted, but this incident met all of the considerations for it being a deliberate play.
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Ok not new law (think you know what I meant). The change in the deliberate/not deliberate attempt..
 
RustyRef said:
I've found the circular they sent out, and it states ...

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

• The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
• The ball was not moving quickly
• The direction of the ball was not unexpected
• The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
• A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air

It came from distance and the defender had a clear view of it.
It wasn't moving quickly, no more so than a "normal" cross.
The direction of the ball wasn't at all unexpected.
The player had penalty of time to see the ball come in.
It was in the air, but so are most crosses.

It isn't that different to video 10 on the clip that accompanied the circular. I think VAR have made an error here, it is at best debatable and certainly not a clear and obvious error. https://red.fifa.com/play/collectio...liberateplayanddeflection?cId=16&itemId=13003
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Disagree. My interpretation is that you're wrong and the VAR actually got it right
But as @es1 points out above, nobody else in the footy world would've batted an eyelid at this, so it's just gross misuse of the technology
No point replying, I sense we won't agree so we'll just have to agree to differ. Besi
Such is IFAB and football
 
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Therealcjhill said:
Ok not new law (think you know what I meant). The change in the deliberate/not deliberate attempt..
Click to expand...
You'll have to go through the IFAB clarification and video clips before deciding for yourself
Be under no illusions though, you have to be very good with the book to take on some of this Forum's members WRT LOTG
You must know the Law inside out before confidently asserting your case on here. Which is good, as it prepares you for observation debriefs in which I can promise you... marks are gained and lost as you progress

Personally, I'd go as far as to say, this decision was 'binary', in that I think the clarification gives so much latitude to the defenders that this isn't up for debate. I was pretty shocked when IFAB came out with the circular at the start of the season as it was a seismic change
I like the clarification because it generally helps us at grass roots whereby defenders expect the flag (historically in their ignorance of the LOTG)
 
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For me, the offside decision is a clear error in law. The decision is wrong based on the law and the guidelines - and the videos and training we have had. The defender made a deliberate play of the ball. No offside. Makes me concerned about the competence of the officials.

For the actual Tunisia goal I want the referee to signal advantage and YC Disasi for the obvious reckless foul on the shooter.
 
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