A&H

Tourettes -how much leaway?

I think it's better, if you have the time to watch/read something online about kids with Tourette's. It does not seem realistic to me that a coach would do that and in most cases it'll be clear to you that the kid has indeed Tourette's, as most tics have nothing to do with obscenities, motor tics and simple vocal ones (grunts, coughs, whistling, shouts/screams) are fairly easy to spot. But if you feel this to be an issue, the local FA should provide further guidance.

A brief browse on youtube offered up these videos in English:



 
The Referee Store
I've watched plenty of documentaries and programmes about Tourette syndome and those that live with it.
There's been a recent documentary on Netflix a out Lewis Capaldi and his struggles with it. And I have seen many others before that one.
My opinion on how I would deal with this is not just baseless and uninformed. I'm aware that it's a very serious condition and I am aware that the person has zero control. A child is unlikely to make a decision to withdraw from an activity that is actively making it worse which is why I am advocating wellbeing support from those that are trusted to care for the child.
Whilst the OP is about a child, this is not a youth football forum and so we do also need to think about what happens in the adult game.
Interestingly enough the only case I know of a pro player having Tourette's (Tim Howard) football actually helped his Tics.

No one has yet to answer the very serious question whether or not they would ignore discriminatory remarks such as racism or homophobia etc. on account of a players Tourette's?
 
JamesL said:
No one has yet to answer the very serious question whether or not they would ignore discriminatory remarks such as racism or homophobia etc. on account of a players Tourette's?
Click to expand...
If I was uncertain whether the remark was as a result of Tourette's, then I would not be sanctioning. However, I would be reporting it to the FA so that the particulars of the matter can be looked into.

I appreciate that this could very well lead to significant fallout in the match.
 
First thought in response to the OP is that if the player and two coaches were able to inform you pre-match, they should also have included mentioning this to the opposition coaches as well, to avoid raised eyebrows.

I like to think that particularly if pre-warned, most people could tell a tic apart from genuine dissent or attempt to insult. Tourettes won't make a player run towards you after a decision to argue it, it's unlikely to include specific contextual phrases like "ref" or "decision" and it won't cause the player to dispute decisions coherently if they otherwise wouldn't.

If my half of the reasonable accommodation includes me turning a blind ear to phrases that might get others binned or sent off, the players half of that involves modifying his non-tic behaviour to reduce the risk of a badly-timed tic escalating a disagreement into a card. That probably means he's being held to a higher standard of behaviour than his teammates, but I think it's a reasonable middle ground regardless.
 
JamesL said:
I think if the Tic's are starting to escalate, in terms of frequency and explicitness, then for player welfare i'd be suggesting to the players manager that he gives him a break (roll on roll offs at this level remember) before he says something to someone that can't be ignored.

It's tricky because you can't give them carte blanche to say what they like because if it is of a discriminatory nature, tic or no, then this can't be ignored.. and then the issue of it being on account of a disability is one that the FA makes at a hearing.

There's also an issue of balance...
1 player calls me a cheating C that's a tic doesn't get sent off, another player does the same gets sent off? Irrespective of disability that isn't fair and there has to be an adult responsibility for the player that recognises when things are deteriorating for them and removes them from the situation that is directly impacting their tics to prevent them escalating to a point that can affect the players welfare and fair play
Click to expand...
I agree.

If it's escalating get sub done to protect the player.
 
GraemeS said:
First thought in response to the OP is that if the player and two coaches were able to inform you pre-match, they should also have included mentioning this to the opposition coaches as well, to avoid raised eyebrows.

I like to think that particularly if pre-warned, most people could tell a tic apart from genuine dissent or attempt to insult. Tourettes won't make a player run towards you after a decision to argue it, it's unlikely to include specific contextual phrases like "ref" or "decision" and it won't cause the player to dispute decisions coherently if they otherwise wouldn't.

If my half of the reasonable accommodation includes me turning a blind ear to phrases that might get others binned or sent off, the players half of that involves modifying his non-tic behaviour to reduce the risk of a badly-timed tic escalating a disagreement into a card. That probably means he's being held to a higher standard of behaviour than his teammates, but I think it's a reasonable middle ground regardless.
Click to expand...
I wrongly took "two coaches" as one from each team.
 
JamesL said:
So if he tics a racist or homophobic slur or other discriminatory remark/comment, you're going to be ok with that? Which is what am getting at mainly.
There has to be a line somewhere else we'll be plagued with the non-genuine all suddenly popping up saying they have Tourette's.

(I've already pointed out that this is a child. I've already said that in line with OP where the tics are clearly getting worse as a result of the game that there are better options for the child's welfare.)
Click to expand...

Certainly not going to be OK with that. It would have to be immediately brought up with his manager regarding the suitability of this player continuing. If issues arise then its going to be reportable too but equally we have to take into account why and that the coach brought it up with everyone before hand which he's not going to do unless he knows what's coming.

There's no black and white here so let's bot go looking for it. Its very much grey.
 
george.g said:
So if a player with tourettes calls you a "m*ng", what course of action would you take? I'm not attacking your POV, but intrigued
Click to expand...
Might ask him/her if they’re okay, feeling alright to continue (e.g. as people have said it can be a sign of stress). But almost all people I know with the condition will apologise for slurs and swears anyway.
 
JamesL said:
So if he tics a racist or homophobic slur or other discriminatory remark/comment, you're going to be ok with that? Which is what am getting at mainly.
There has to be a line somewhere else we'll be plagued with the non-genuine all suddenly popping up saying they have Tourette's.
Click to expand...
An employer is expected to tolerate it! Under law. I think if you suspect fakery then report it to the league or CFA like you would an unregistered player etc?
 
Ben448844 said:
We're not doctors, we cannot judge how severe someone's tourettes is.
Click to expand...
I'm am not really disagreeing with your posts in general but disagree with using "we are not doctors" here or in many other occasions. We are referees with supposedly good judgement. We are not doctors yet we are required to judge how serious an injury is (to stop play).

I take @JamesL 's balance reference as nothing about disadvantaging the kid with tourettes, but excersising our judgement for safety and well-being of all 22 (or more) kids including the one with tourettes. What if I feel opponents (also kids) are being frustrated and a undo reaction is imminent? What if the Tics are targetted (involuntarily of course) and the target can't handle it? Again this is about wellbeing. By all means let it goes if you see no impact using your judgement and common sense. One size does not fit all.
 
JamesL said:
No one has yet to answer the very serious question whether or not they would ignore discriminatory remarks such as racism or homophobia etc. on account of a players Tourette's?
Click to expand...
No I won't. I am not sending the kid off for it. I would have a chat with the manager to take him of (at least temporarily). If this doesn't happen or if it continues I am prepared to abandon/suspend the game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top