Throw in Signals

[Deleted member 3014]

Thanks, so Under all circumstances the keeper has no special exceptions to the outfield players when it comes to offside?

If the keeper is on the half way line etc you just go to the second last defender rather than the last defender?

For some reason don’t ask me why, I always thought that if you were behind the keeper no matter what the situation you are classed as offside.

 

[one]

Thanks, so Under all circumstances the keeper has no special exceptions to the outfield players when it comes to offside?

If the keeper is on the half way line etc you just go to the second last defender rather than the last defender?

For some reason don’t ask me why, I always thought that if you were behind the keeper no matter what the situation you are classed as offside.

Yes, yes and I wont ask you why.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

So to recap, visualise and drum into my head that ball off blue is a throw pointing to right with flag in right hand, ball off red is throw to the left with flag in left hand.

Stay with second last man on most occasions, when crabbing along the line keep flag down and neutral to ground ready to raise in either hand, after signaling for throw move along back to second last man, corners move around flag inline with goal.
Pen wave flag then keep to chest, throws obvious, offside raise flag until noticed then far middle or near for direction depending on where the kick should be taken from.
Subs flag inline with head or above facing play.

I guess a can ask what the ref expects of me pre match.

Anything I might have missed guys, what about dissent or verbals from players spectators or club officials etc, unlike sat / sun league I guess it has to be dealt with a bit differently?

God what have I let myself in for

Also offside, any tips ?

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Yes, yes and I wont ask you why.

It’s called not knowing the laws, because as a player you know that the ball should go into the net & you play with eleven players on each team you think you know everything & can’t understand why referees make mistakes or pull you up on things.

It’s only when you take a whistle blow for kick off yourself that your melon sized nuts turn into little tiny peanuts & you think to yourself god I was wrong can I run off the pitch to my car and drive off into the sunset.

 

[Big Cat]

One of the biggest sources of referee team miscommunication has been when one of the uses "player talk" to communicate instead of LOTG talk. That's obviously because they played, watched or talked to players for many years before becoming a referee.

In player talk each team has 3, 4 or 5 defenders depending on formation. In LOTG talk all opponents of the team with possession are defenders.

Other common non lotg terms, "the box", last man, passback...

The very term "player" in footballer term is everyone with a jersey number on the teamsheet while in lotg definition player refers to the 22 on the FOP only and the rest are substitute, substituted player or a sent off player

Referencing the Rules of Golf, the Laws of the Game should have a definitions section at the front of the book. Then the Laws can be more concise and less ambiguous. Finally, the practical guidelines for officials is used to interpret specific scenarios. This is loosely akin to law and case law

 

[one]

I fixed a few things for you but its a very summarised version. I know you dislike reading the book and like to read them here but i think you would really benefit from reading the practical guidelines section of the LOTG.

------------------

So to recap, visualise and drum into my head that ball off blue is a throw pointing to right with flag in right hand, ball off red is throw to the left with flag in left hand.

Stay with second last man defender or the ball if its close to the goal line on most occasions when ball in play, when crabbing along the line keep flag down and neutral to ground ready to raise in either hand in the hand closest to the referee, after signalling for throw move along back to second last man defender, corners move around flag inline with goal line not interfering with kicker.
Pen raise and then wave flag slightly then keep to chest point towards the goal line like a throw in (for a free kick) but make sure this is what the referee wants you to do for pen, throws obvious, offside raise flag until noticed then far middle or near for direction depending on where the kick should be taken from.
Subs flag inline with head or above head facing play.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Thanks for that & just to clarify, you can only be offside in football from a direct or indirect free kick or a through ball? Any other type of play their gk centre etc etc can not be offside?

Also the only thing I have an issue with on your wording is where u keep saying second last defender, i understand what you mean but it is a little confusing for newbies like myself because in theory it’s the last defender your staying with, the keeper is not a defender, could they not word it as stay with the last outfield player.

Am I making sense with what I’m saying? If a newbie picked up the lotg he would be tracking the second last defender all game which would be wrong he needs to be on the last defender. Obviously a keeper isn’t worded in it but is a very important factor probably the reason I & many team mates thought keepers were exempt from the normal outfield offside rules.. it’s because keepers are not mentioned in the general offside law.

 

[one]

Thanks for that & just to clarify, you can only be offside in football from a direct or indirect free kick or a through ball? Any other type of play their gk centre etc etc can not be offside?

If the ball is played to him or touched by a team-mate (free kick or open play), only on becoming involved in active play. The exceptions are from goal kick, corner kick or throw in.

Also the only thing I have an issue with on your wording is where u keep saying second last defender, i understand what you mean but it is a little confusing for newbies like myself because in theory it’s the last defender your staying with, the keeper is not a defender, could they not word it as stay with the last outfield player.

Am I making sense with what I’m saying? If a newbie picked up the lotg he would be tracking the second last defender all game which would be wrong he needs to be on the last defender. Obviously a keeper isn’t worded in it but is a very important factor probably the reason I & many team mates thought keepers were exempt from the normal outfield offside rules.. it’s because keepers are not mentioned in the general offside law.

The keeper is a defender in lotg terms. You should learn and get used to using lotg terminology if you want to progress in refereeing. Any opponent to the team that has the ball is considered a defender, even their goalkeeper or striker.

newbies are taught what second last defender means in their introductory course. If the lotg used common terminology, it might help with this one issue but it would create a lot of confusion in other places.

 

[santa sangria]

Thanks for that & just to clarify, you can only be offside in football from a direct or indirect free kick or a through ball? Any other type of play their gk centre etc etc can not be offside?

Also the only thing I have an issue with on your wording is where u keep saying second last defender, i understand what you mean but it is a little confusing for newbies like myself because in theory it’s the last defender your staying with, the keeper is not a defender, could they not word it as stay with the last outfield player.

Am I making sense with what I’m saying? If a newbie picked up the lotg he would be tracking the second last defender all game which would be wrong he needs to be on the last defender. Obviously a keeper isn’t worded in it but is a very important factor probably the reason I & many team mates thought keepers were exempt from the normal outfield offside rules.. it’s because keepers are not mentioned in the general offside law.

As posted above. Defender = player on the defending team, including the goalkeeper.
The best way to get used to this is when the GK catches the ball after a corner... then the GK always runs to the edge of the box past the defenders, right? So, where are you supposed to be? Not with the GK, not with the last defender but with the second last defender.

"Through ball" is a term you shouldn't use because it is not in the laws and won't help you. Any touch by an attacking player can lead to an offside, except a corner kick, goal kick, throw in (or penalty). Of course, the attacker who then receives the ball must have been in an offside position when the ball was touched by his teammate Remember the 1-2-3: interferes by playing/touching ball, interferes with opponent, gains advantage after a save/post/deflection.

GK throws the ball can lead to an offside offence, if that's your question.

Briefly about flag technique and throw ins. Maybe not mentioned: the idea is you always change hands with the flag down, never change hands over your head.
The idea of having the flag ready at throw in decisions: you change hands with the flag down ready to signal, while looking at your ref...just a little pause... if your ref is smiling/moving/pointing/signalling with you, then you're all good... if you've got the flag down ready in the hand you want to signal, you are 100%, but you look and your ref is already signalling the other way, or is giving you a massive tip, shaking their head... then you change hands and signal with him/her. No rush.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

If the ball is played to him or touched by a team-mate (free kick or open play), only on becoming involved in active play. The exceptions are from goal kick, corner kick or throw in.

The keeper is a defender in lotg terms. You should learn and get used to using lotg terminology if you want to progress in refereeing. Any opponent to the team that has the ball is considered a defender, even their goalkeeper or striker.

newbies are taught what second last defender means in their introductory course. If the lotg used common terminology, it might help with this one issue but it would create a lot of confusion in other places.

So can you sympathise ever so slightly with what I’m saying? A new referee that has been asked to run the line may get his wires crossed when a book instructs him to track the second last defender, when to most inexperienced people a defender is an out field player not a goalkeeper.

 

[one]

So can you sympathise ever so slightly with what I’m saying? A new referee that has been asked to run the line may get his wires crossed when a book instructs him to track the second last defender, when to most inexperienced people a defender is an out field player not a goalkeeper.

Ah yes absolutely i can sympathise and understand what you are saying. My point is that the solution is not to change the law for a newbie (it would be impossible). The solution is that the newbie learn the law as fast as they can and preferably before getting on the line

 

[JamesL]

Thanks for that & just to clarify, you can only be offside in football from a direct or indirect free kick or a through ball? Any other type of play their gk centre etc etc can not be offside?

Also the only thing I have an issue with on your wording is where u keep saying second last defender, i understand what you mean but it is a little confusing for newbies like myself because in theory it’s the last defender your staying with, the keeper is not a defender, could they not word it as stay with the last outfield player.

Am I making sense with what I’m saying? If a newbie picked up the lotg he would be tracking the second last defender all game which would be wrong he needs to be on the last defender. Obviously a keeper isn’t worded in it but is a very important factor probably the reason I & many team mates thought keepers were exempt from the normal outfield offside rules.. it’s because keepers are not mentioned in the general offside law.

I think whatever way u look at it the keeper is a defender. He doesnt play defence. But he is a defender.

Referencing the Rules of Golf, the Laws of the Game should have a definitions section at the front of the book. Then the Laws can be more concise and less ambiguous. Finally, the practical guidelines for officials is used to interpret specific scenarios. This is loosely akin to law and case law

The lotg does have this..except it is towards the back of the book.

I fixed a few things for you but its a very summarised version. I know you dislike reading the book and like to read them here but i think you would really benefit from reading the practical guidelines section of the LOTG.

------------------

So to recap, visualise and drum into my head that ball off blue is a throw pointing to right with flag in right hand, ball off red is throw to the left with flag in left hand.

Stay with second last man defender or the ball if its close to the goal line on most occasions when ball in play, when crabbing along the line keep flag down and neutral to ground ready to raise in either hand in the hand closest to the referee, after signalling for throw move along back to second last man defender, corners move around flag inline with goal line not interfering with kicker.
Pen raise and then wave flag slightly then keep to chest point towards the goal line like a throw in (for a free kick) but make sure this is what the referee wants you to do for pen, throws obvious, offside raise flag until noticed then far middle or near for direction depending on where the kick should be taken from.
Subs flag inline with head or above head facing play.

To add to the penalty. If its a penalty younshould crab down to the goal line. If outside of area and exaggerated step or two to your left. A referee should cover this in prematch.

 

[zarathustra]

This is all starting to sound a bit complicated to me, and I’ve done more than my fair share of lines.

People have covered most things, but my one piece of advice to add is: stick with the ball once it moves past the second to last player on the defending team.

If someone takes a shot from the he half way line you need to get down there as quickly as possible, if you think you’d get a hard time for giving a throw the wrong way it would be worse if you get a goal/no goal decision wrong because you were still stood up near the half way line.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Ah yes absolutely i can sympathise and understand what you are saying. My point is that the solution is not to change the law for a newbie (it would be impossible). The solution is that the newbie learn the law as fast as they can and preferably before getting on the line

Have you got the law makers mobile no? I’ve got a couple things I’d like tweeked second last defender being one of them.

On a serious note I hate to come back to this but I’ve got to say it, it took me between 5-10 games in the middle to gain confidence and believe in what I was doing, those first 1-5 games in the middle were so demoralising & confidence crushing I can’t begin to explain it, now after doing the line for the first time the other week it took me right back to that place & it wasn’t nice, I’ve worked hard and got out into the middle as much as possible to work through the woes & then one AR appointment dented my confidence, so much so that back in the middle the other day I was hesitating for 5 mins about ball in & out which way the throw should be going, luckily it went and I actually had a decent game.

So my question is I’m really happy to be part of a level 4 team tomoz & honoured but I don’t want to get lost in translation between linesman duties and requirements & my refeeeing development, will this really help my ref’n in the long run because tbh all it did last week was dent my confidence.

 

[JamesL]

Absolutely. I have learnt tons and tons frok doing lines. Things like pre match chat with captains... i have thought I like that and adapated it to my own. Its little things that build up over time.
Pre match instructions are great to hear the little tweaks that different referees make to help your own one day when you are the one delivering them. Its early days and yes much of what you do will be spent concentrating on the game but as you relax into the role you'll be able to take in so much more from the referee.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

I think whatever way u look at it the keeper is a defender. He doesnt play defence. But he is a defender.

The lotg does have this..except it is towards the back of the book.

To add to the penalty. If its a penalty younshould crab down to the goal line. If outside of area and exaggerated step or two to your left. A referee should cover this in prematch.

I get what your saying but to the x amount of people trying to learn, if you play in defence then your a defender you can’t use your hands to pick up the ball, if your a goalkeeper you keep goal & can use your hands you wear a different kit to the defenders on your team.

I get it it’s just on the particular law of offside to refer to keeper as a defender can have its confusing moments for a newbie.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Absolutely. I have learnt tons and tons frok doing lines. Things like pre match chat with captains... i have thought I like that and adapated it to my own. Its little things that build up over time.
Pre match instructions are great to hear the little tweaks that different referees make to help your own one day when you are the one delivering them. Its early days and yes much of what you do will be spent concentrating on the game but as you relax into the role you'll be able to take in so much more from the referee.

Cool I just hope I can crack bring a AR because if i struggle then it makes me feel like a half useless referee.

How can I instruct club AR to run the line for me if I can’t do it myself.

 

[one]

Have you got the law makers mobile no? I’ve got a couple things I’d like tweeked second last defender being one of them.

On a serious note I hate to come back to this but I’ve got to say it, it took me between 5-10 games in the middle to gain confidence and believe in what I was doing, those first 1-5 games in the middle were so demoralising & confidence crushing I can’t begin to explain it, now after doing the line for the first time the other week it took me right back to that place & it wasn’t nice, I’ve worked hard and got out into the middle as much as possible to work through the woes & then one AR appointment dented my confidence, so much so that back in the middle the other day I was hesitating for 5 mins about ball in & out which way the throw should be going, luckily it went and I actually had a decent game.

So my question is I’m really happy to be part of a level 4 team tomoz & honoured but I don’t want to get lost in translation between linesman duties and requirements & my refeeeing development, will this really help my ref’n in the long run because tbh all it did last week was dent my confidence.

Se @JamesL comments. It is a massive opportunity for you to work with referees of that level. Don't miss it for the world. You must tick some right boxes to be put on the game.

On confidence, it fluctuates. You could be refereeing after 5 games or after 5 years and riding high on confidence and it only take one or two bad games to bring you right back down to earth and have self doubt. It takes a little while to get that confidence back up again and round and round we go.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Just ran the line in a local game, just to recap I’m I’m running the line in a semi-pro environment tomorrow evening & this is how my warm up went...

I found myself quite a lot getting distracted and taking my eyes off the second last defender, I often had to kick myself and say stop watching the game and get your eyes back on the line, I also spent every other 5 mins saying to myself blue left red right, blue left throw red right throw, then there was offsides god it’s hard to call sumtimes & unless your exactly inline you don’t give yourself the best chance to call it. I tried to crab up and down the line as much as possible rather than run facing the corner flag it’s not easy.

All in all it wasn’t enjoyable I rarely got a chance to watch the ref, I’m really starting to think that I’ve made a silly and ambitious move running the line tomorrow I could be out of my depths & could look a right fool infront of a fair few people.

I know the only way to learn and improve is to get out there and do it but I don’t want to look like a numpty infront of fellow officials & a pitch full of semi-pro footballers.

 

[Big Cat]

Just ran the line in a local game, just to recap I’m I’m running the line in a semi-pro environment tomorrow evening & this is how my warm up went...

I found myself quite a lot getting distracted and taking my eyes off the second last defender, I often had to kick myself and say stop watching the game and get your eyes back on the line, I also spent every other 5 mins saying to myself blue left red right, blue left throw red right throw, then there was offsides god it’s hard to call sumtimes & unless your exactly inline you don’t give yourself the best chance to call it. I tried to crab up and down the line as much as possible rather than run facing the corner flag it’s not easy.

All in all it wasn’t enjoyable I rarely got a chance to watch the ref, I’m really starting to think that I’ve made a silly and ambitious move running the line tomorrow I could be out of my depths & could look a right fool infront of a fair few people.

I know the only way to learn and improve is to get out there and do it but I don’t want to look like a numpty infront of fellow officials & a pitch full of semi-pro footballers.

I hate the term semi-pro. It means naff all. The money usually amounts to a pittance and any player using the term has an inflated self image