Throw in played by teammate out of bounds

[santa sangria]

Seems simple but it caused confusion at the time:

Throw in taken up the line. Own player jumps across the boundary line and plays the ball while it is in the air. From the view of the AR, the ball was likely to bounce out of bounds but for the intervention of the teammate - as the AR, what is your decision, action, restart, with citation please...?

 

[ARF]

Seems simple but it caused confusion at the time:

Throw in taken up the line. Own player jumps across the boundary line and plays the ball while it is in the air. From the view of the AR, the ball was likely to bounce out of bounds but for the intervention of the teammate - as the AR, what is your decision, action, restart, with citation please...?

Was the ball still outside of the field of play when the player played the ball?

 

[santa sangria]

Was the ball still outside of the field of play when the player played the ball?

The ball was outside the FoP when the player played the ball, yes. And was likely to bounce outside the FoP.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Doesn't matter if it was likely to bounce outside or inside. TI process as per Law 15 hasn't been violated but the ball also hasn't entered the FOP. So in that case it's a retake.

 

[boulderdomb]

If the ball hasn't left the FOP, it's play on although if the ball has left FOP then it's a retake. It doesn't matter where the ball is projected to land, in my opinion of the ball left the FOP and the wind blew it out (however narrow it was), it's a throw to opposition.

 

[Peter Grove]

If the ball hasn't left the FOP, it's play on although if the ball has left FOP then it's a retake. It doesn't matter where the ball is projected to land, in my opinion of the ball left the FOP and the wind blew it out (however narrow it was), it's a throw to opposition.

That doesn't make any sense. According to the description as far as I understand it, the ball never even entered the FOP so it can't have left it again.

As per Law 15, "The ball is in play when it enters the field of play," but since this ball never entered the FOP it has to be a retake.

According to the law, a throw-in only gets retaken by the opposition if there was an offence. There was no offence here. Touching a ball which is not in play, is not an offence (unless the referee thinks its part of a ploy to delay the restart which doesn't appear to be the case here).

 

[santa sangria]

Yes, the ball never entered the FoP.

Any more before I unveil my actions at the time and my thoughts since...?

 

[GraemeS]

I'm with the majority here - if the ball doesn't enter the FOP before being touched, the correct action is a retake and the player playing it off the FOP is kind of incidental.

 

[santa sangria]

OK, here goes. The throw was with red, attacking the goal to my left. My first reaction was flag straight up in left hand to signal to the referee. However, as I did that, my mind remembered the bit in the laws about "if the ball touches the ground before entering" the FoP then it's a retake. So, I put my flag down quickly, changed to right hand and signalled a throw to whites. I didn't windmill but I was gutted that I'd changed hands at the time as it spoilt a "perfect" game (maybe I'll see later if all the offsides were correct).

So, of course, I looked in the laws to see.
"The ball is in play when it enters the field of play. If the ball touches the ground before entering, the throw-in is retaken by the same team from the same position. If the throw-in is not taken correctly it is retaken by the opposing team."

The big question then is: was the throw in taken correctly?

There is no definition of what is "correctly".
There is a list of "At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:" that includes face the FoP etc. but it doesn't say that these are the things that constitute "correctly". In fact it clearly omits to say that.

So, with my rose tinted spectacles I say EDIT there was an offence as the ball was played by a player of the same team before it entered the field of play, therefore I am going with the final clause of Law 15 that states "For any other offence the throw-in is taken by a player of the opposing team."

So I was right to give it to white. Shoot me down please!

 

[Mintyref]

If it never crossed the line it was never in play, retake. You have not indicated anything wrong with the throw.
The second player played the ball off the pitch, that has no relevance. Retake.
Next time just post what happened and what you did instead of dangling your bait to see if you can get someone to rise to the bait!

 

[RustyRef]

I think you are tying yourself in knots here. If it didn't come into play it didn't come into play, so it can only be a retake whatever the player did to touch the ball before it came into play.

 

[JamesL]

I think the closest relevant point in case is a goal kick.

If a player touches the ball before it is in play then it's a retake...

Same principle here; the ball is never in play as it hasnt met the requirement for it to be so and therefore a retake would be the correct outcome. No offence has been committed.

 

[santa sangria]

If it never crossed the line it was never in play, retake. You have not indicated anything wrong with the throw.
The second player played the ball off the pitch, that has no relevance. Retake.
Next time just post what happened and what you did instead of dangling your bait to see if you can get someone to rise to the bait!

Hi, I thought I did simply explain the scenario in OP, no?
I don't see how your answer is supported in the laws.

 

[santa sangria]

I think the closest relevant point in case is a goal kick.

If a player touches the ball before it is in play then it's a retake...

Same principle here; the ball is never in play as it hasnt met the requirement for it to be so and therefore a retake would be the correct outcome. No offence has been committed.

Yes and no.
I agree it is similar to a GK.
But in the GK law the scenario is clearly described. At least you are referring to what happens if a player touches the ball before it has left the area: "If the ball does not leave the penalty area or is touched by a player before it leaves the penalty area the kick is retaken."

The recent post about a goal kick that went for a corner has got me thinking. What if the GK is played towards the goal line/penalty box and a defender plays the ball out of bounds there without the ball having the left the penalty area in play? Law 16 for GKs is different from law 15 for throw ins as it concludes with: "For any other offence the kick is retaken." But even this is not needed here as law 16 also says:
"If the ball does not leave the penalty area or is touched by a player before it leaves the penalty area the kick is retaken." So, it's clear for GKs.

My point is that law 15 does not say "if a throw in is touched by a player before it enters the FoP the throw in is retaken". This scenario is not covered.

 

[santa sangria]

Follow up question then: a throw in is taken "correctly" and before the ball enters the field of play the player that took the throw in touches the ball again. What is your decision?

 

[santa sangria]

... talking aloud here... I think the answer depends on where the ball lands, no? If the player taking the throw in catches the ball in front of them and the ball doesn't then enter the FoP then it's a retake, right? But if a player has "correctly" taken a throw in but then, before the ball enters the FoP, volleys it onto the FoP, it is a throw to the other team, surely?

In the OP, I didn't even think to mention what happened to the ball after the teammate "volleyed" it. Do you still think retake if a teammate volleys a "correctly" taken throw in, before it enters the FoP, onto the FoP?

(Not trying it on here... genuinely going over this)

 

[Mintyref]

Hi, I thought I did simply explain the scenario in OP, no?
I don't see how your answer is supported in the laws.

Try reading them again. Ball has to be in play for any form of play related offence to occur, it wasn't so there was no offence therefore it's a retake, simple.

 

[JamesL]

The law says "The ball is in play when it enters the field of play". I think it is more than reasonable to assume this means directly from the throw in. If the ball does not legally come into play it is a retake hence my likeness to GK scenario.

If you're still unsure and need further clarity I would suggest emailong ifab with the quandry and report back here what they say.

 

[ARF]

It's a retake.

 

[santa sangria]

The law says "The ball is in play when it enters the field of play". I think it is more than reasonable to assume this means directly from the throw in. If the ball does not legally come into play it is a retake hence my likeness to GK scenario.

If you're still unsure and need further clarity I would suggest emailong ifab with the quandry and report back here what they say.

Sound advice. I have wrote the iFAB Specifically: if a player has taken a throw that meets the given criteria but then, before the ball enters the FoP, a teammate volleys it onto the FoP, is it a retake?