Throw in (one handed)

[Ciley Myrus]

Completely wrong... these views sound like something from the dark ages.
I suggest you ask your employer, providing you aren't retired, if you could perhaps go on an equality and diversity training day to learn the true meaning of it in todays society.
Its about making reasonable adjustments to ensure that a person who has a disability has an equal opportunity as a person who does not have a disability.
If the throw in is taken in accordance with lotg, with the exception of two hands then equality and diversity would mean that you should make a reasonable adjustment for that person and their disability.
Like Rusty says, if he follows the procedure then allow it... if he is over arming it like a keeper then you need to step in and say no, it should be taken like X (insert requirements less two hands.)

Thats exactly what I have been saying, attempt something like a hammer throw no
Attempts as close as a legal throw as possible yes
I need no social education skills advice from you or anybody else on here thanks, oh and two years now we have had a newly established equality tournament here....only ref to have been at both? Moi.

 

[JamesL]

I get what you are saying but it has to be fun and fair for all right?
He is using his disability to his and his teams advantage. By not being able to throw the ball as per the lotg, he is taking a throw in the only way he can. His team are hugely benefiting from it.
Surely a disabled team would hugely benefit from an able bodied player who would find that game attractive to them.

Surely if you are going to play that paragraph, it has to be fair for all.
The reason that there is a disabled game, with its own adapted rules/laws, is so that every one can enjoy the game in their own bodies whilst adhering to the rules.

Would this player play in goal?
I highly doubt it.

FYI - PC brigade incoming - but you shouldn't really use the term "able bodied".

The difference between disability football and football is that disability football will be specific to a disability e.g. cerebral palsy, blind, deaf, amputee. Therefore to take part you must have the requisite disability. Football does not have any set requirements of a players bodily functions and does not exclude people with disabilities from taking part and reasonable adjustments should be made to allow people to take part.

I honestly cant believe what I am reading on this forum this morning...

 

[JamesL]

I have said since post one on this, am more than ok with an allowance on the throw
Am not ok with him throwing it olympic hammer style. I would need his throw to be at least effort at a legal throw. I have typed this in a lot of my posts on this.

Your view on what equality and diversity means though is wrong. Its not about these are the rules everyone must conform.
Its about positively discriminating certain sections of society, making reasonable adjustments, to give them equal access.

Edit: I am withdrawing the last comment on this post as perhaps unjustified and aimed in the wrong direction.

 

[zarathustra]

Like most others I think that if the player is making an effort to throw the ball as legally as possible with one arm then that is fine.

If he's throwing the ball over arm like a keeper, or in the form or a hammer throw etc then that should be a foul throw.

Equality doesn't mean that everyone is treated the same, it means that everyone is treated fairly.

It isn't fair on the player with one arm if a referee prevents him from taking a throw due to his disability (providing he is doing his best to take a legal throw).

Likewise, it isn't fair on the opposition if we allow this player to take the throw in any manner he likes while making no attempt to make the throw legal (or as legal as it can be)

 

[Ciley Myrus]

The poster above makes my point better than me.

What I will add though is poster One adding in the quotes from page 13 of the book is contradicted on page 11

And further more, the part he quotes is not relevant to modifications, if so, I wait with interest to hear what we are modifying for the other participants in the same phrase, notably relating to sexual orientation or race. All are in the same sentence in the book, so if its taken to mean changing things for one group of participants, it covers them all, or, none.

 

[xPositor]

@zarathustra sums it up well.

To add though, in youth football, if a referee is concerned about how they should apply the LotG in this scenario, then they should query it with their refsec. The refsec can then judge what they deem to be fair (such as no keeper-style throws), and communicate that decision to both the club secretary and/or welfare officer, and the referees that they have on their books for the league. This way the team manager (who may be using it to their advantage) should not get the hump if a foul throw is blown for, referees shouldn't feel embarrassed / pressured in to giving / not giving a decision, and everyone gets the magic nirvana of consistency.

 

[one]

Ok back from the park. Went for walk with Mrs One and took a ball with me. Tried several throw ins some with one hand and some with both. All taken according to LOTG (except for the one handed of course). The furthest my one hand throw (form behind and then over the head) can go is about 2/3 of my two handed ones. Possibly a challenge you guys want to try as well

So if a player with one arm throws the ball 25-30 meters and follow the rest of the LOTG correctly, I would still allow it. I can only imagine he has a strong arm and if he had two arms he would have throw in it even further. The point is being fair is not to ask him to not throw it long, is to ask him one hand is fine as long as you do the rest of the procedure right.

 

[socal lurker]

The old US Advice to Referees directly addressed this issue:

"A player who lacks the normal use of one or both hands may nevertheless perform a legal throw-in provided the ball is delivered over the head and provided all other requirements of Law 15 are observed."

I believe that part of the advice was based on one of the old IFAB Q&A, but I did not go back and check. And it really tracks the common sense comments above: the one armed player needs to do something similar in form to a traditional TI.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I have said since post one on this, am more than ok with an allowance on the throw
Am not ok with him throwing it olympic hammer style. I would need his throw to be at least effort at a legal throw. I have typed this in a lot of my posts on this.

I doubt anybody is arguing that the one-armed player should be able to throw it however he likes. As long as it's replicating conventional style as much as possible.

Though I don't think anybody here knows what your position is - one post you seem to say it should be allowed, within reason, the next you seem to argue it shouldn't be allowed at all.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I doubt anybody is arguing that the one-armed player should be able to throw it however he likes. As long as it's replicating conventional style as much as possible.

Though I don't think anybody here knows what your position is - one post you seem to say it should be allowed, within reason, the next you seem to argue it shouldn't be allowed at all.

I have been clear from the very start. If it resembles something along the lines of a recognised throw, fine
Nowhere (please quote me if am missing something) have I said otherwise.
I got the impression from the OP that it was an Olympic hammer throw (as also I have made clear a few times) or some other throwing style which is nothing like a recognised throw. I have made numerous posts about how the player can take the throw, as long as its something along the lines of a recognised throw, nowhere have I said I wont allow a 1 handed throw or so on.
Anyways even if I have (which I have not), my view is 000000.0001% of the footballing world so its no real influence on anything

in case for some reason you personally want me to spell out my take on it, he can play, he can, if the throw resembles something in the LOTG procedure, take the throw
He cannot hurl it pitcher style or any other far fetched method which is nothing like a recognised throw

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

That's what i thought.. I wonder how much of this thread is just people misinterpreting each other? Then misinterpreting responses to the misinterpretations?

 

[Peter Grove]

They have realised the kid can throw it that far one handed over any other player who would throw it about 5. But to do this they need the referee to agree. So whilst the opposing team are taking throw ins 5 yards in distance this team have the advantage of him throwing it one handed 25 yards?

I'm sorry, but I feel you're making a false argument to artificially bolster your point of view. I've never seen a U13 team where the players could only throw the ball 5 yards. I know I used to coach a U14 team that had a player who could throw the ball to around the penalty spot on a full size field - so at least 25 yards. I would say 5 yards is a clear under-estimate and 15 yards (and quite often a fair bit more) would be more like it. So I think your argument about it giving such a massive advantage and being so grossly unfair that it can't possibly be allowed just doesn't hold water.

For instance, if the other team had a player that could also throw the ball 25 yards but using both hands (which as I say, is not impossible) then the team with the one-armed thrower would not have a quantifiable advantage and so I reckon the unfair competitive advantage argument holds no real and absolute validity. Which leaves us with just the Laws of the Game argument.

Obviously it's not directly relevant here but under the NFHS Rules in the US, a competition which sets great store on sportsmanship and fairness, Rule 15 says:

The thrower shall use both hands (unless a physical impairment would limit use to one hand)

To me, that seems an eminently sensible provision at youth level (basically anything under 18) especially when, at least in my opinion and experience, the 'unfair competitive edge' argument has been vastly over-stated by some.

 

[bloovee]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to determine "over the head". Would that be if any part of the ball is over any part of the head?

Seriously, I think the issue here is not inclusion but allowing a team to take an advantage from disability.

If I’m honest, I couldn’t even target an age group as I’m not exactly going to deal with on a regular basis but certainly not 12 year olds. The FA drill into everyone about making everyone feel included at this age. How on earth does singling him/her out like this make them feel like that?

The singling out is by his team coach saying he takes every throw-in.

 

[zarathustra]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to determine "over the head". Would that be if any part of the ball is over any part of the head?

Seriously, I think the issue here is not inclusion but allowing a team to take an advantage from disability.



The singling out is by his team coach saying he takes every throw-in.

The only way I could see a team get an advantage from always having their one armed player take throw ins is if the player uses something like an over arm goalkeeper throw etc.

I've not tried it but the mechanics of performing a (mostly) legal throw with 1 arm isn't that difficult, but would need some allowances made other than the fact only one arm is used.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

As an aside, what if said player has a prosthetic arm that gave him enhanced Steve Austin powers, if the throw was technically correct but his bionic arm gave him a usable advantage??? Allowed??

 

[Ciley Myrus]

As an aside, what if said player has a prosthetic arm that gave him enhanced Steve Austin powers, if the throw was technically correct but his bionic arm gave him a usable advantage??? Allowed??

Am thinking he certainly cant play at all?
Same as a plaster cast? Dangerous to other players?

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Am thinking he certainly cant play at all?
Same as a plaster cast? Dangerous to other players?

Players play with adaptations all over the world with zero issues !

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Players play with adaptations all over the world with h zero issues !

Unless its happened without my knowledge I have never experienced an artificial arm or leg in non disability football

Cant see how that complies with safety but more than happy to be corrected.

Plaster cast/prostetic arm, same?

 

[Peter Grove]

As an aside, what if said player has a prosthetic arm that gave him enhanced Steve Austin powers, if the throw was technically correct but his bionic arm gave him a usable advantage??? Allowed??

That was science fiction - prosthetic arms do not actually confer Steve Austin-like powers.

Seriously, I think the issue here is not inclusion but allowing a team to take an advantage from disability.

As mentioned earlier, I think the the alleged advantage relies on a seriously over-exaggerated if not totally illusory argument.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

But let’s say it did?