As normal on this forum, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree and move on
Throw in (one handed)
- Thread starter ladbroke8745
- Start date
Ciley Myrus
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Ciley Myrus
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By letting him throw the ball in different, its you who are singling him out from 21 other players......
to treat everybody equal would be to have a throw in technique along the correct procedure.
RefJef
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Ciley Myrus
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Perhaps not the most tactful of phrases, given the topic being discussed!
For once a genuine freudian slip
Miley, You were letting them play in woolly hats last week!!
Have a heart!!!It really depends on what he is doing. If he is using one arm to throw it a short distance like and able bodied person would normally do then you would be crazy to get involved. But if he is taking a run up and then hurling like a goalkeeper, with the ball landing at the far post, I think you probably have a problem and I can't see that you would be able to let that go as I can't see the opposition letting it go.
Ciley Myrus
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and as we know (or should) hats subject to specifications are allowed
mistaking the ball for the Olympic hammer and chucking it further than I can kick it...is not.
So how are they taking throw ins in the Leg Amputee World Cup finals then.....??
santa sangria
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Do not feed the troll
Ciley Myrus
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Disability football has different regulations, based on the tournament itself
I am taking a guess the OP is relating to what we would deem, a bog standard U13 local league match
No such modifications apply
ladbroke8745
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This has been my point all along, even on Facebook.
For a 12-13 year old lad, a throw 5-6 yards is good. 25 yards is unheard of. It's not even common in open age.
For this young lad to get it that far the only explanation is he is throwing it like a keeper would over arm. The ref suggested the ball went behind his head. I can't see it being in a similar fashion to two handed one as the ball would fall out his hand. And if he does out it behind his head and has his hand flat to stop that then he has absolutely no momentum in his throw to throw it 25 yards. The only logical way it can be thrown is then over arm keeper style throw. And that is a huge advantage.
Ciley Myrus
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Do you mean me? Are you saying because I go onto a football field intent on fairness and would refuse to deliberately treat one player extremely different to the other 21 that that makes me a troll?
If you do mean me, can I suggest a google definition of our favourite word......cheat
"act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."
Pandoras box indeed.......
You need to get back on the job in the morning issuing those tickets!! I'm flabbergasted with that response!! He's 13, he hasn't an arm, he's hardly gonna throw a ball like Rory Delap!!
Ciley Myrus
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the posts suggest he can throw it 5 times further than the other kids.
repeat am not saying, he is not to play! am not even saying he is not to take a throw ! But if he is to take a throw it has to least be an effort along the lines of the other players...
ladbroke8745
RefChat Addict
It wasn't my match but impression I got was a full, regular, league match of able bodied players.
I get the age, I get wanting to be included, but if this player chooses to play in an able bodied league, he must adhere to able bodied regulations. They have leagues available to all to be included in which this young man can play in if he wishes to utilise his talent with the throw, for example, without breaking the lotg that every other player has to adhere to.
It was this players choice to play in this game, this league, this competiton. Not the other players.
And it is likely to be his managers decision to break the lotg by getting this player to take the throw and exploit that long throw and then claim discrimination if anyone objects. And because of the fear of being accused of discrimination people may not object, thus allowing this player to get away with it. And he may not even know he is actually doing something wrong.
At 12 years old, the manager is still telling/dictating players who takes throw ins etc. Even if it's not in today's game, if he has indicated it from the first 2 or 3 games, then the players eventually get used to it and assume that that player is takingthrows until told otherwise. It's not always the players fault.
Also, because of his one arm, he obviously has built up such strength in that arm too that that may be the reason why the manager exploits it further.
I get the age, I get wanting to be included, but if this player chooses to play in an able bodied league, he must adhere to able bodied regulations. They have leagues available to all to be included in which this young man can play in if he wishes to utilise his talent with the throw, for example, without breaking the lotg that every other player has to adhere to.
It was this players choice to play in this game, this league, this competiton. Not the other players.
And it is likely to be his managers decision to break the lotg by getting this player to take the throw and exploit that long throw and then claim discrimination if anyone objects. And because of the fear of being accused of discrimination people may not object, thus allowing this player to get away with it. And he may not even know he is actually doing something wrong.
At 12 years old, the manager is still telling/dictating players who takes throw ins etc. Even if it's not in today's game, if he has indicated it from the first 2 or 3 games, then the players eventually get used to it and assume that that player is takingthrows until told otherwise. It's not always the players fault.
Also, because of his one arm, he obviously has built up such strength in that arm too that that may be the reason why the manager exploits it further.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
My region has a well known deaf player, I have officiated him for certainly over 10 years....
would he get a bit of allowance say for playing on after the whistle...yes, indeed.
if whilst doing so he cleans out the gk on that traditional 1 on 1 through ball, is he escaping punishment? No way at all.
would he get a bit of allowance say for playing on after the whistle...yes, indeed.
if whilst doing so he cleans out the gk on that traditional 1 on 1 through ball, is he escaping punishment? No way at all.
Um... No.
I've been around referees that hold this view like you seem to do, and this is a horrible viewpoint to be taking. I've had referees and referees officers say that I would have to dispense with disability aids (hearing aids, cochlear implants) and so on because by the LOTG it is against the rules.
Fortunately, the IFAB disagree with them and point to the spirit of the game, I know a lot of people dislike that line but tough luck. That's what the spirit of the game exists to do, to give wiggle room for whatever reason - such as allowing myself to be an official on the pitch to the best of my capabilities.
With the scenario in question, I'm in agreement with @RustyRef that it should be judged on the method of the throw - if he can get a one-armed throw going 25 yards and it's not akin to a goalkeeper throw then it should absolutely be permitted.
Just because he's disabled and has a stronger arm than what might be expected from able-bodied persons is not justification enough to exclude him from partaking in the game, or taking the throws. In fact, if you do it based on this alone you are directly discriminating against him on the basis of his disability. Shame on you.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I need to disagree entirely with the above. The LOTG tell you clearly what can and cant be modified.
"the taking of the throw" is not one of them.
Why should I cop the flak next week for adhering to the good book itself. Being a referee is not a moral choice, if it was, I would help a team who is losing heavy to score a goal, or chalk off a few dodgy offside ones to help out.
am not permitted to do so though. am appointed to ensure fair play to the best of my ability
To allow someone in one team to do something so far removed from the LOTG that its not fair, would be me failing as a match official. (note there is a difference between match official, and person in everyday life)
to actively promote one team to have an advantage over the other, whether its u13 or u23, is cheating. There is no other word for it.
if the above was factual then there would be no Olympics/Paralympics, there would simply be an even playing field for all
as it is, there is not, so, things get levelled out in the interest of fairness
nobody is excluding anyone, nobody is denying the chance to play, nobody is saying even don't throw the ball
what they are saying is, it has to be thrown along the same lines as the other shy takers....that's inclusion/equality and that's treating everybody the same
"the taking of the throw" is not one of them.
Why should I cop the flak next week for adhering to the good book itself. Being a referee is not a moral choice, if it was, I would help a team who is losing heavy to score a goal, or chalk off a few dodgy offside ones to help out.
am not permitted to do so though. am appointed to ensure fair play to the best of my ability
To allow someone in one team to do something so far removed from the LOTG that its not fair, would be me failing as a match official. (note there is a difference between match official, and person in everyday life)
to actively promote one team to have an advantage over the other, whether its u13 or u23, is cheating. There is no other word for it.
if the above was factual then there would be no Olympics/Paralympics, there would simply be an even playing field for all
as it is, there is not, so, things get levelled out in the interest of fairness
nobody is excluding anyone, nobody is denying the chance to play, nobody is saying even don't throw the ball
what they are saying is, it has to be thrown along the same lines as the other shy takers....that's inclusion/equality and that's treating everybody the same