The Ref Stop

Open Age This will be your last game ref

socal lurker said:
While I haven't been assessed at as high of levels as some here, I absolutely refused to do anything different when I was being assessed. IMHO, if it is how it should be done when being assessed, it is how it should be done all the time. And if that isn't true, the assessment system is broken.

(OK there was one exception--call me a hypocrite if you want. Once upon a time, USSF insisted that the R and AR wear the same length of sleeves. They go over it. But there were some of the old guard who continued to insist that is what we were "supposed to" do. So on assessments I would not have the ref team wearing different length sleeves, as that is not an argument I would want to get into.)
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Observed.

Not assessed. ;) :D
 
The Ref Stop
socal lurker said:
(OK there was one exception--call me a hypocrite if you want. Once upon a time, USSF insisted that the R and AR wear the same length of sleeves. They go over it. But there were some of the old guard who continued to insist that is what we were "supposed to" do. So on assessments I would not have the ref team wearing different length sleeves, as that is not an argument I would want to get into.)
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That was the case here in the 1980's / 1990's - both wear the same length sleeves. Which was problem as i refereed in short sleeves, but liked to line in long sleeves.
 
lincs22 said:
That was the case here in the 1980's / 1990's - both wear the same length sleeves. Which was problem as i refereed in short sleeves, but liked to line in long sleeves.
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I didn't know that--I thought it was just a wacko US thing (yeah, I confess, we have those...)--I guess it just took us longer to figure out how stupid it was.
 
JamesL said:
You missed my point. If you don't caution big gaz when the observer is there, why do you when he is?
I haven't said anything about what I do and don't do, I referee my normal game for an observer.
Give u an example, step 6, first game this season, sub midway through first half, young lad, comes running straight on before injured player left. Do you think I cautioned him? No, he was a young lad, probably 17 or 18 year old, who was clearly very excited to get his big chance at step 6 football. Did i get done by the observer? No I did not. I didnt hide it either, I hauled him back to do it properly and warned him that he was risking a caution just running on.
I ran a risk of the observer not being happy with it, but I can be certain had I cautioned, everyone from the player, his team mates his opposition, and spectators would have all been surprised to see a card and it would have negatively impacted the game.
You do your game, if the observer takes exception to something, you sell it to him with sound reason and a good observer should understand why you have done something if it benefits the game and or your match control
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THIS.

I have never met an observer/referee coach/assessor who didn't say 'you were wrong, but I'll give you a chance to to explain.' In your example, I'd like to think (and certainly in my experience) the assessor would point out you'd failed to apply LOTG but give you a chance to say why. After all, is your performance (and match control) going to be better if you referee with your head in LOTG book or if you referee according to the game? That situation doesn't NEED a card and match control benefits without one but you've made clear at the time that you were aware of the situation.

I've never met an observer who'd say 'you were wrong and I don't care why.'
 
Jtpetherick1 said:
I've never met an observer who'd say 'you were wrong and I don't care why.'
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Unfortunately they are out there. And in personal experience then tell tales of how they did this, that and the other in their careers which bear little resemblance to the incident in question.

I once abandoned a game for a 21-player brawl and was told I was wrong to do so by one such assessor. I could have managed it better and finished the game.

The good news is an increased number of observers being available and better training/support is squeezing them out.
 
I was observed in today’s game, the only thing I did differently was ‘manage’ the substitutions properly instead of letting the player come on before the other player had gone off and taking his name somewhere in the middle of the field of play.

Everything else was the same and the debrief was pleasant.
 
Jtpetherick1 said:
THIS.

I have never met an observer/referee coach/assessor who didn't say 'you were wrong, but I'll give you a chance to to explain.' In your example, I'd like to think (and certainly in my experience) the assessor would point out you'd failed to apply LOTG but give you a chance to say why. After all, is your performance (and match control) going to be better if you referee with your head in LOTG book or if you referee according to the game? That situation doesn't NEED a card and match control benefits without one but you've made clear at the time that you were aware of the situation.

I've never met an observer who'd say 'you were wrong and I don't care why.'
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I've had one flat out call me a liar to me face in the debrief and in the report after he disagreed with something he thought I hadn't done. He asked me about the incident. I told him what happened. He said nope, it didn't happen like that, don't lie. *****. Still gets me angry thinking about it.
 
Keeday said:
I was observed in today’s game, the only thing I did differently was ‘manage’ the substitutions properly instead of letting the player come on before the other player had gone off and taking his name somewhere in the middle of the field of play.

Everything else was the same and the debrief was pleasant.
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So in games with no observer you elect to ignore parts of the LOTG? As others have said on here, changing your normal game when observed will be noticed by an observer and by players. Not recommended!
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
So in games with no observer you elect to ignore parts of the LOTG?
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Yes. I don't insist on matching sock tape or undershorts, or subs coming on at the half way line, or having corner flags, or players leaving at the nearest point, probably a bunch of others. Those laws don't add to the enjoyment of the match for the players or for me. Insisting on them at in parks football will just get you called a dick, and with some justification.

I apply the laws that matter. Who decides which laws matter? I do.
 
Trip said:
Yes. I don't insist on matching sock tape or undershorts, or subs coming on at the half way line, or having corner flags, or players leaving at the nearest point, probably a bunch of others. Those laws don't add to the enjoyment of the match for the players or for me. Insisting on them at in parks football will just get you called a dick, and with some justification.

I apply the laws that matter. Who decides which laws matter? I do.
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So now we know the identity of "The referee last week . . . " which your colleagues hear regularly when they do the job properly:)
 
Trip said:
Yes. I don't insist on matching sock tape or undershorts, or subs coming on at the half way line, or having corner flags, or players leaving at the nearest point, probably a bunch of others. Those laws don't add to the enjoyment of the match for the players or for me. Insisting on them at in parks football will just get you called a dick, and with some justification.

I apply the laws that matter. Who decides which laws matter? I do.
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Hope you've got a tin hat ready ... ? :)
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
So in games with no observer you elect to ignore parts of the LOTG? As others have said on here, changing your normal game when observed will be noticed by an observer and by players. Not recommended!
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If that’s what you’ve taken away from my post then the issue lies with your interpretation and not my actions :)
 
Trip said:
Yes. I don't insist on matching sock tape or undershorts, or subs coming on at the half way line, or having corner flags, or players leaving at the nearest point, probably a bunch of others. Those laws don't add to the enjoyment of the match for the players or for me. Insisting on them at in parks football will just get you called a dick, and with some justification.

I apply the laws that matter. Who decides which laws matter? I do.
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A team is losing 8-0 with 10 minutes to go. One of their players commits a DOGSO in the penalty area, attempting to play the ball. The player is already on a yellow card from a previous offence. The players on both teams come over and ask you not to send them off, Do you send them off?

After all, it's not going to impact the result of the game, and it's certainly not impacting positively on the enjoyment of the players.
 
Justylove said:
A team is losing 8-0 with 10 minutes to go. One of their players commits a DOGSO in the penalty area, attempting to play the ball. The player is already on a yellow card from a previous offence. The players on both teams come over and ask you not to send them off, Do you send them off?
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Yes, because that law matters.

Even at the highest level the culture dictates which rules are strictly applied. Until very recently no referee would insist on a penalty re-take as a result of encroachment unless the encroachment affects the result. I even read a referee guide written buy two FIFA WC referees that said you shouldn't. It is often the case that a blatant foul in the penalty area on a striker long after a shot has been taken is not penalised. (Personally I don't understand that one but it seems to be expected.)
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
So now we know the identity of "The referee last week . . . " which your colleagues hear regularly when they do the job properly:)
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When you tell both teams the match is off because you won't referee without corner flags I don't think last week's ref is going to get a mention.
 
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